Yep.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

I'm loving how anyone that was against tanking is apparently now not allowed to be happy that we have Murph and Mr Kennedy.

There's a difference between being happy that we got high draft pick through us being genuinely shit and getting them through tanking.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I will be seriously evaluating my support should I ever find out that we went out on the park with the intention of losing.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Dukes - just a minor correction as I'm a Livo-liker - Livo was recontracted in 2005 for an additional season. He has not been retained solely because of having an extended contract, he has been retained for in my view he showed something pre-season and on certain opponents. We don't have any natural FB replacements so Livo will get another year to prove himself.

As to the rest of you, keep dick-wagging.

Nope

The basic instinct of any life form is survival. Although the possibility of a better life could exist in the afterlife, we want to hang on to the one we've got no matter what.

The basic instinct of any competetive team or individual is to go out with the sole intention to WIN! You could hardly call yourself a sportsman if you didn't.

If I knew that our team went out and threw a game for charity, I would be as embarrassed as when Campo threw himself onto the ground ala Maradonna.

To me, tanking is like suicide.

Now, we finished last, got the picks, for Christs sake let's move on, already.

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end of message

Point taken - I think the same thing happened to Sporn after he put in a decent pre-season comp. I grouped these guys as they are all lucky to be still at the club regardless of when they signed.

I'm hoping like hell Livo can put it all together regularly, Davies can find some consistency to add to his obvious goalkicking talent and Bannister can find a role to play in the senior side. I'll be honest ... my patience and hope in these guys is really starting to wane but asl ong as they pull on the navy blue I'll be there to support them - go blues!

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In WADA we trust

Even though the rules have rightfully been changed I doubt that the debate will not be raised at some stage next year so be prepared to ignore it when it returns.

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There's so much I could say...

The only purpose of this thread was to ask if those who wanted to win those games in rounds 18-22 would now give back Murphy and Kennedy in exchange for a win? It wasn't meant to be a debate on tanking/not tanking.

No one has said they would hand back Murphy and Kennedy in exchange for a win, so they should rightfully come forward and apologise to us all for having to listen to their whinging and whining in the latter part of the season.

Don't let your ego's get in the way of appologising, only an idiot would give them to Collingwood in exchange for a win in round 18-22.

Carlton God
Looking forward to your appologies

hey your God hear my prayers!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Murphy and Kennedy to the filth in exchange for the Spoon and a loss? Done.

You don’t seem to realise your thread cannot be about anything other than tanking. If you offer a choice between the picks and a victory that IS a decision about tanking and so you must phrase your question in the context of that hypothetical question being posed when we played the filth and the bummers late season.

Don’t forget, at the time when everyone was talking about tanking being an option we didn’t even know who pick 1 would be! Even if we HAD known, there are no guarantees with pick 1, chances are you will get a very good player, but you just might shank the next Waterhouse, Fraser or Goddard.

So, for some unknown kid, who MAY turn out to be more than handy, tankers are prepared to sacrifice the culture at the club, enjoyment of the spectacle for a record membership and the development of mateship, trust and success of the playing group. Its not so long ago that the mantra of the club was that the one thing you had to do each year was beat Collingwood, and we were able to cherish a year as one of our finest, despite being beaten grand finalists, because we knocked out the Dons by a point in the prelim. Those were similar times to when we derived as much pleasure from never having finished last as we did from our record flag haul. The reason is that this club has always expected success and despised mediocrity.

People will turn around and say you need to change with the times, and they are right, but its about the way that you do it. When all your players come from the same talent pool, its about assembling the best recruiting department and then providing the best development facilities and coaching staff, its not about waiting for your turn to pick up a bloke you presume will hold the premiership cup in 5 years before happily waiting another 16 years to repeat the experience. If that is the presumption we can save everyone a lot of bother and hand out the premiership on a rotation basis each draft day. It is not of course, a club is about a squad of players and it follows that teams win flags, not individuals – ask Gary Ablett, Maurice Rioli, Nathan Buckley or a fellow called Chris Judd. This years draft was the 20th, and there is still no case study of a club that is able to translate priority picks to premiership success.

Don’t get me wrong, I am pleased Murphy and Kennedy are here, and I hope they have long and successful careers at the club, but I don’t like the price we had to pay for them. If we did so voluntarily, as far as I am concerned that is the end of the club and acceptance that it is but a brand in the AwFuL entertainment range.

pffft logic terribly overrated if you ask me

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yeah? 3 years time and you'll have forgotten that we came last as you watch Murphy kick 3 from the centre!

I had to throwaway all my anti-spoon stuff when I realised how far back we were and how long it was going to take to challenge for the 8. Carlton fans, god love us, well, God is one of us, are so hopeful as to these draft picks that some are calling us back into the 8. What we often forget is that everyone else is improving at the same time, well, except for the Pies and Bombers whose stars are 25+ and on the decline curve, if not finished it. Its going to take so long to get back into the 8 that any extra free kick from an extra draft pick or earlier slot in the draft is just so absolutely welcome

Very hard to quantify I know

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Yes but we DID know who pick one was going to be....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

yeah, they were quick to announce that name after demetrielf handed it over

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

No you didn't