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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:54 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Port wont make the eight this year

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:55 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yes but at home against their rivals in Adelaide the week before they were thrashed by 70 points.

Now Adelaide hasnt won a premiership since 1997 and have about 5 players from that ide if that....

What does the rocket scientist say to that???

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 9:56 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
Yes but at home against their rivals in Adelaide the week before they were thrashed by 70 points.

Now Adelaide hasnt won a premiership since 1997 and have about 5 players from that ide if that....

What does the rocket scientist say to that???


Adelaide now has a better side than Port.

Didn't you work that out last year? :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:01 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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So Port arent crash hot ?????

But they thrashed us on our big day....

With their not so good side....



The point is we dont have a game plan to counter Port .because were miles away
Our kids need to be developed more.because theyre miles away
Our tactics are off.because theyre miles away



Currently were miles away a middle of a road side...



Thats all im saying....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:05 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
So Port arent crash hot ?????

But they thrashed us on our big day....

With their not so good side....



The point is we dont have a game plan to counter Port .because were miles away
Our kids need to be developed more.because theyre miles away
Our tactics are off.because theyre miles away



Currently were miles away a middle of a road side...



Thats all im saying....


Crash hot? Definitely have been better than Carlton for many years now. So have Adelaide. Adelaide are currently better than Port.

Who'd of thought it..last with 4.5 wins and we are miles away from the middle of the road? :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:09 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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But two years ago with a different coach Adelaide finished below us ....

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:15 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Last year Adelaide have the best defence in the League and finished on top of the ladder, before that 12th, 6th and 3rd.

Two years ago Port were Premiers. And finished top the two years before that.

Last year we finished last, the year before that tenth, the year before that second last, the year before that last....um...rocket surgery anyone??


:roll: Adelaide finals 3 of the last four years and two top four finishes, Port finals 3 of the past four years and three top four finishes.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:18 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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yeah but adelaide were stagnating under ayres werrnt they???

So in their case the coach was holding them back .. wasnt he???

so that means that a change of coaching can breath new life into a club yes???
and the swans did the same thing didnt they???


and im not saying that we will win the premiership am i???

what i am saying is were kind of tired/ jaded and sick out there arent i???

cos we have had more thrashings than just about any club since fitzroy .. havent we???

and again you cant really answer all those questions with any real logic can you???

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:25 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Who know's if Adelaide were "Stagnating"...they had one poor year in the last four...hardly fallen in a heap, maybe they were. It involves 50+ men with all sorts of egos.

Anything can happen.

Football ISN'T logic...it never has been. It's as random as it gets.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
Who know's if Adelaide were "Stagnating"...they had one poor year in the last four...hardly fallen in a heap, maybe they were. It involves 50+ men with all sorts of egos.

Anything can happen.

Football ISN'T logic...it never has been. It's as random as it gets.


random??? so if the dice falls our way we have a chance of winning the flag...

Go see if anyone will give you 16/1 ... or 50 to 1.. (less random)

verbs ... again.. another nice try .. but were not at kinda here...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Who know's if Adelaide were "Stagnating"...they had one poor year in the last four...hardly fallen in a heap, maybe they were. It involves 50+ men with all sorts of egos.

Anything can happen.

Football ISN'T logic...it never has been. It's as random as it gets.


random??? so if the dice falls our way we have a chance of winning the flag...

Go see if anyone will give you 16/1 ... or 50 to 1.. (less random)

verbs ... again.. another nice try .. but were not at kinda here...


If football was logical, Sydney wouldn't have won the premiership. We're not at kinda, but even you should be able to work that one out.

No? :shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:38 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Again.. very nice try....
Sydney have a coach who is modern day.
Sydney also have a smart team that can switch from defence into attack at the drop of a hat.

Sydney had a bit of luck with the tribunal...

but they were good enough to make top 4 which means its random from there.. not where we are...


anyway... go find someone who agrees with you that footy is random and will give u 16/1 that we will win the flag..

Ill give u a better tip.. were about 2/1 to win the wooden spoon.. barring a plane crash to another team jump on board.. easy money!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Logic would tell you you can tip the extremities, but at this time last year you would've been very :oops: come the last day in September.

And absolutely no-one can deny that...even with hindsight.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:47 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
Logic would tell you you can tip the extremities, but at this time last year you would've been very :oops: come the last day in September.

And absolutely no-one can deny that...even with hindsight.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


yes and you have a straight face when comparing what we have to the swans...

and youre trying to get all logical.. but you have no clue about reality.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:51 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Logic would tell you you can tip the extremities, but at this time last year you would've been very :oops: come the last day in September.

And absolutely no-one can deny that...even with hindsight.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


yes and you have a straight face when comparing what we have to the swans...

and youre trying to get all logical.. but you have no clue about reality.


So at this time last year you were predicting the Swans to win the premiership and Carlton to finish last?

Nope.

There would be not a single soul in this whole wide world who could've predicted that, no matter how much logic they used.

Get used to it.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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verbs wrote:
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Logic would tell you you can tip the extremities, but at this time last year you would've been very :oops: come the last day in September.

And absolutely no-one can deny that...even with hindsight.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


yes and you have a straight face when comparing what we have to the swans...

and youre trying to get all logical.. but you have no clue about reality.


So at this time last year you were predicting the Swans to win the premiership and Carlton to finish last?

Nope.

There would be not a single soul in this whole wide world who could've predicted that, no matter how much logic they used.

Get used to it.


Ok ill answer it like this to stop your pathetic nonsensical argiment.

This time last year i thought the Swans were a million miles ahead of us.
Right now i think thre a million miles ahead.

I never thought they had no chance of winning the premiership.
I did however believe we had no chance of winning the premiership.

Its not random that i think like this verbs.
There is some thought put into it........ unlike you.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 10:59 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Synbad wrote:
verbs wrote:
Logic would tell you you can tip the extremities, but at this time last year you would've been very :oops: come the last day in September.

And absolutely no-one can deny that...even with hindsight.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


yes and you have a straight face when comparing what we have to the swans...

and youre trying to get all logical.. but you have no clue about reality.


So at this time last year you were predicting the Swans to win the premiership and Carlton to finish last?

Nope.

There would be not a single soul in this whole wide world who could've predicted that, no matter how much logic they used.

Get used to it.


Ok ill answer it like this to stop your pathetic nonsensical argiment.

This time last year i thought the Swans were a million miles ahead of us.
Right now i think thre a million miles ahead.

I never thought they had no chance of winning the premiership.
I did however believe we had no chance of winning the premiership.

Its not random that i think like this verbs.
There is some thought put into it........ unlike you.


Some thought...not much...safe conservative statements which are easy to back up 12 months later.

The fact that the outcome of football, like horse racing, is pure chance, will never change.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 4:49 pm 
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Bert Deacon

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verbs wrote:
The fact that the outcome of football, like horse racing, is pure chance, will never change.


Bit of a silly for-the-sake-of-an-arguement statement there Verbs. While on any given day upsets may happen, over time the more talented, better coached sides will win - that's why we have form, favourites and long shots. Under your "pure chance" view, every horse or team would start at equal odds. Yes, Swans did experience an element of good luck last year, but they were superbly coached to take advantage of it.

After 3 years of talking mostly pure shit, Synbad is finally starting to see the light. While I was quite happy to have Pagan as coach, I was not religious enough to see him as the second coming (the first coming for many posters here). Back then Sinners was all for the glory of Pagan and advocated we dump our Carlton-ness and become Shinboners - he may have got his wish - I only hope it doesn't take the Blues as long to win their next premiership as it took the Shinners to win their first.

If people had have kept their eyes and minds open, the question marks over Pagan should have started appearing in his very first game at the helm. That was the Allstars game - a pre-pre-season game played in Darwin's stiffling humidity against a speedy combo with at least some experience playing under those conditions. The AllStars made 9 or 10 interchanges in the first quarter, we made 0 or 1. Pagan is to this day still thinking First-18 and his inability to fully utilise the interchange has meant Carlton play most of their games virtually 4 players down.

Roll on to pre-season 2003 vs Collingwood. Now love or hate Lance, most would agree that his his big advantage out on the paddock is his footy brain. By having Lance run to a hot spot - with about 4 or 5 opponents in tow - trying to mark telegraphed made-for-Carey bombs, meant Pagan not only completely nulified Lance's greatest strength but forced him to play to his weaknesses. Pagan's blind adherence to his game plan over and above our ability to execute it, has been one of the main reasons for our abissmal form. Consequently, we lost Lance for a few seasons and the player group lost confidence in the straightjacket game plan and the planner.

Pagan's plan can be summed up by 2 players - David King and Wayne Carey - tuck the ball under you arm, run and bounce it as far as you can and then boof it forward to a contest and hope someone can take a hanger. The individual and individual effort take precedence over the team working together as a unit. Yes, it is a simple plan but its not simple because it makes it easier for the players - it is simple (or more accurately simplistic) because Pagan himself cannot function with anything more complex. It is a cover to his poor tactical understanding of the game.

And then there's Pagan's in-your-face, Barassi-era autocratic approach ...really, you could write a book about his shortcomings re the modern game.

The 99 pt defeat last weekend can be put down to just-a-prac-game/shit happens but in the context of the previous 3 years, it's not good sign. We do seem to have some young potential at the club and we have to ask ourselves whether we can afford to leave them under Pagan's "direction". He won't leave of his own free will - he still beleives he's right and everyone else is wrong - so he will have to be pushed. Carlton's economic situation isn't great but look at it this way - we're paying someone 800 big ones to look after 7 million dollars worth of assets. If he was my mechanic and he was doing to my car what he's doing to our list, I'd go deeper into hock to get rid of him.

Bottomline - Sinners is starting to talk some sense. Nows the time to listen to him.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:03 am 
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Harry Vallence

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excellent post billy_bongo....finally some commonsense!!!! How can we start the rebuilding process of this great club when we dont even have the right people at the top? Just something to ponder!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:07 pm 
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Rod McGregor

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Surely "the top" includes the administration, too.

Unless Collo and his board have had a very cunning plan since they started to off-load OO, one must question the manner in which they handled the transfer of home games from OO - I am talking about social club finances in particular.

in my view, once the OO issue is sorted out, it is time for Collo the caretaker to step aside, and get the love back at carlton.

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