Mighty Blues made a fantastic analysis rere: Joel Smith's creativity and initiative in his post - something we've lacked for say 5 years now.

However, I think it's rather ignorant to blame Deluca entirely, even though I totally agree that his decision making is poor and that it takes a couple of minutes for a message 'to kick' to travel from his small brain to his lanky legs. Not even I have that problem and I'm LANKY LARRY!!!

I've mentioned time and time again that football is a business. It is being developed, promoted, executed and governed as a business, so I think it should be managed and played like a business.

I've worked in a corporate environment for nearly 8yrs now. Allow me to illustrate how similar the corporate environment is to AFL football...

I need someone to manage one of my retail outlets. So I recruit - similarly to the draft - and find someone I believe best fits the job. I am responsible for training that person to perform their tasks properly. Afterall, the purpose of running my retail outlet is to generate high profit and offer premier service.

I monitor the performance of my newly recruited and recently trained manager. The bloke just doesn't have what it takes. Customers are complaining about bad service, he's rude and unfriendly. As a result sales are down nearly 60% and I can no longer afford to pay my bills. I can no longer afford to run this particular retail store as a result of its poor performace so I close it down.

Who is responsilbe? Me or my manager.

Yes, my manager was directly responsible for the poor performance and ultimate collapse of my business but who was responsible for his performance? ME!!!

I recruited him, I trained him and I didn't reprimand him for his poor performance. I thought "I'd give him a chance" to prove himself, and I decided to keep him on the job.

At any stage, I could have pulled my manager aside and told him that what he was doing was wrong and hopefully help him to become a better manager. If i see this isn't working, I tell the bloke I no longer need his services and I rethink my recruiting and training regime and I FIX THE PROBLEM!!!

Pagan and the rest of Carlton's football managers did not drag Deluca for his stupidity. If the runner is reprimanding him theyre not doing it enough because the same mistakes are happening.

Pagan is giving Deluca the instruction and obviously has no problem with his game play.

Pagan has the power to drop him for a week, just to make the message clear that what he is doing is just not good enough.

Sorry to make an example of Deluca - this applies to a number of the players.

Again, stop blaming the players, they're only playing the way they've been trained and they're only lining up because Pagan put their names on the team sheet.

Frankly, we look like a business going under. A few years back I had a buisiness facing bankruptcy. I simply rethought our strategies, hired new people and gave the business a whole new approach. Today that business is a very successful business.

I don't see why Michael Malouf or Graham Smorgon (I know he deserves a chance) doesn't do the same?!

We're so afraid of change, yet perhaps change will be our greatest friend.

um when you recruit your manager did you do so from a limited pool in a numbered order depending on say how many sales you didn't make last year?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I don't think thats important...

We certainly missed out on excellent talent in the 2002 and 2003 drafts...

However we have failed to successfully develop players drafted in between '99 and '00 and have had the same opportunities as other clubs in 04 and 05.

There are players who are playing the same footy they were in '02

Eg: Sporn, Wiggins, Houlihan, Prenda etc.

and we've persisted with duds such as Clarke, Bowyer, Harford and Johnson

Those guys should never have been given a run...

POOR MANAGEMENT!!!

Elliot stuffed up with Salary Cap - HUGE STUFF UP which all clubs do apparently - but he ran the place well!

Hats off to Larry...

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"The Wigg's big in 08!" - Chris Judd

He ran the place so well we have more debt than prospect.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Do not take the lack of responses to your initial post as suggesting any level of agreement from the Carltonmasses.

I'd suggest most just don't care to respond.

How dare you try and bring up Elliott as some model for anything positive after where Carlton has been left because of him. 2002 and 2005 not painful enough for you?

Lanky with posts like this and the previous one no wonder nobody is bothering to respond. More holes in your argument than Swiss Cheese.
Have a rest lanky and don't post anything else until it makes sense.

Wake up it's 2006 & they've all gone.

I don't need people to agree with me - I'm not insecure at all.

This forum is simply a means for me - and everyone else - to voice their opinions.

Unfortunately, most of you do not like the posts that give a true account of reality - you just focus on positives and find ways to see the good in mediocrity.

I'm sorry but I'm not like that. When we do something well, I'll be the first to complement it, but when something is done inefficiently and ineffectively I will lambast those responsible.

Focussing on the positives will only give you temporary optimism and comfort. But it's not true!

The problem with people who are fixated on positives is that they continue to head down the road of mediocrity accepting everything and trying their best to convince themselves everything is ok.

Fact is, things aren't good and they haven't been for 5 years. So lets acknowledge it, find a solution and move forward.

The purpose of this post was to parallel the workings of corporate-management to football-management. They're one in the same.

I admit my opinion is negative, and harsh at times. However, I believe that in order to progress we must first recognise the blemishes of our past and present.

there one and the same in the areas they are and in the areas they aren't you want to ignore but hey you're just being a realist

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Do me a favour danny and illustrate the points of difference - im not saying they don't exist but if you're going to make an argument at least present some examples.

Surely Synbad agrees with me!

You're speaking twaddle.

No one here thinks things are OK. Even the most optimistic here recognises we are years off being a force.

Recognising positives in young players is not about mediocrity as you suggest, it's about looking to the future - a future in which the mistakes of the past can't be re-created otherwise we're dead.

Your point seems to be that it was a mistake to recruit Harford, Johnson etc. Derrrrrr.............

and that we should just go and and hirte whoever we want and then manage them properly like in the big wide weal world

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

If football is not about management and development then what is the role of the coach?

One definite reality is that Houlihan is not playing like he did in 2002.

Another definite reality is Prenda and Wiggins are not even in the seniors at present. Adelaide was sniffing at Sporn for pick 15 in the last draft.

We could have dumped all these players at the end of 02 or 03 or 04 but nobody knew any better than we do now. We could have lost by 150 points plus without a Wiggins or a Prenda or a Sporn in our side over the last few years when you consider how restricted we were in our ability to draft.

Those restrictions hindered our ability to develop anyone. There was gloom from toenail to final frizzeled hair on head at Princes Park. Everyone has been enveloped by the less respected depressive blues which spoilt our more appreciated, grand final eating Blueboys attempts to get their legs back.

We have Elliot and a vindictive AFL and a non-sympathetic, "fuck-them' community of other clubs and supporters to thank for that...and the complacency of ourselves as supporters to some degree.

Aghhhh reality....

Perhaps I under-rate the effects of our salary cap breach.

Yes Elliot is partly responsible for Carlton's recent plight, but that doesn't mean he was a bad manager. For the 20 or so years of his reign we had a consistently brilliant side - if management is going to be responsible for teh bad times, they deserve some credit for the good times.

I acknowledge we've been restricted in our 'hiring practices' but there is no excuse for players being unfit and unable to kick, handball or mark.

At a professional level, we should not have to question game-plans and structure - elements that are lacking and predictable at Carlton.

There is no excuse for not playing our youth - similarly to the Bulldogs, Geelong and St.Kilda.

There is no excuse that week in and week out we play with a predictable game-plan, with no structure and no coherence. This is not what one would expect from a professional sporting regime.

No we don't have the best personel, but we have not made the most of what we've got.

actually for 20 years we won 2 flags. How many under Harris? Rice?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Now Lanky think quite clearly about this question?

Does a good manager know how to cope when the working environment he/she operates changes around him/her? Does a good manager have the vision to see where his/ her business needs to adapt to keep one step ahead of his competitors?
Answer these questions and tie them into Elliots rule in the latters years.
I'll give you some hints:
Think about Windy Hill and Victoria Park and how many AFL games they play at those grounds. Think about Geelong, StKilda and Bulldogs and there approach to drafting. Think about the Kangaroos and there approach to drafting.
Have a think because you must be a very competent manager and come back to me with your response. I am very interested in your thoughts.

and add this. When Elliott came to power we were the absolute superpower of the AFL. Collingwood were gone, Essendon* were a whisper, Hawthorn won flags and little else. We had members, money, energy. We were the team.

What were we when he left?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The Weakest link....GOODBYE

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Loooook OUT!