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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:54 am 
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Rod Ashman
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I am not too sure about Denis's plan - it could be either too complex or too simple for me to understand, but when we are talking about development and who would have bought on players quicker, better, more Y% more X% ... i can only offer this...

who is further in their development out of these players? Walker, Cooney, Ray, Bradley, Sylvia, Mclean??

Personally i think Walker has shown the most improvement or development compared to where he started ... maybe Ray too, but i still think he is ordinary..

Who is further in their development out of these? Simpson, Wells, Goddard, Salopek?

I think that Simpson is probably further along than the others even though it would be suggested that he had less to work with (he was taken WAY later in the draft). That is not to say he is the best player, but he has shown the most development - is seen as a leader at the club and is a consitant performer at AFL level.

People could then offer up Waite, Fisher, Russell etc as counter arguements i suppose...


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 12:01 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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london blue wrote:
Tyrant
i am not attempting to defend Denis's game plan or question whether he is the right coach or not, but who are the players you believe he has failed to develop to the levels that would satisfy?


I could point to this year and ask what development has gone into a variety of young players, like Russell, Blackwell etc.... Kennedy, O'hAilpin etc etc

and yes they've gotten games (and O'hAilpin good minutes of late) but they are hardly getting a run....

we've finished last.

Going back in time and putting more time and variety into some of those players isn't going to make us have a worse season. His recent treatment of Smith etc has been appalling.

The most galling thing has been picking the kids and giving them a couple of minutes and ripping them off when they make errors etc.

I'm not advocating "chucking them all in at once", but we need a balance and there's been only a very flimsy sense of balance, which gives rise to my concern about the exact nature of the "plan" in place.

And I don't believe point to Simpson and saying "he didn't play much for 3 years and now he's great" is a great argument for Pagan's plan either. I could just as easily say if you compress a spring and leave it compressed, its going to spring back into shape if you release it 1 year later or 3.

Its one of those GREY areas Dannyboy loves, that ultimately comes back to idealogy...

I personally have detested pagan's idealogy for the handling of the non-super-kids, because, frankly, its not as though they'd be costing GOOD players games, is it?

People are talking now about Bentick looking exhausted last week. It might have been nice if we'd had someone like Smith available from day 1 to come off the bench and work with him, give him a breather, pick up some valuable minutes himself... his form in the 2s last year certainly warranted at least some minutes in a team that finished last last season and, well, had just as piss-poor a list as last season (in terms of players ready to play in 2006)

But whoops! we can't promote Smith because we chocked up on deadhead midfielders from other teams like Chambers... adn we can't delist him because we gave him 2 years.

And we can't give Jackson a shot, despite a decent preseason, because well, we picked him with a rookie pick.... and though we were pathetic last year and had SO MANY hopeless players... we only had 4 picks in the national draft because... well... we'd made so many shocking decisions with contracts and rejects from other clubs.

PLANNING! Where was it in 2003 when our only kid we drafted was Walker? What about in 2004 when we "added" Chambers and Longmuir?

It all builds up! Pagan's whole idealogy about re-building this list has been HOPELESSLY POOR from day 1... its flowed into this season from that day....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:39 pm 
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Robert Walls

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Tyrant thanks for the considered response.......there is always a different perspective - now go and enjoy that bloody beer :lol: :idea:


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 9:15 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Not Essendon* after tonight's effort because they've come from 46 points down and they're trailing by 8 points after a piece of Hird magic. Hird just marked again to goal and they've got Lloyd to come back.

Two points in it and any club can move the ball better than Carlton under Pagan.

At least they'll lose the PP. :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:21 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Ask a simple question...get a very complicated answer...

Gotta love the passion on this site!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:39 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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its why questions are such delightful creatures.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 2:29 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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The Tyrant wrote:
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
While, lets say, X% of players on our list have improved Y%, under Pagan, my argument is that the actual numbers of X and Y would be GREATER with a better coach/better plan.


Is there going to be a test on this later? I was always good at algebra, but Calculus was a definite weak point.


yes... what are the turning points in Wiggins' career?

WIGGO'S CAREER = 2x^3+6x+15

The 15 responds to his draft position

:garthp:


BTW, the turning points in Wiggo's career are at x = +1,-1

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