i idolise Hadz... where the hell is Hadz???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Make your point Synbad, by all means, but sometimes you need to tone it down a bit okay.

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Did i come across as too homo because i told Josh i idolise Hadtz?

If so.. im sorry...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I idolise myself too...

Great reading all this, by the way , better than watching the tennis, these rallies are awesome...

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

Haha, no it wasn't that, you know you push the limit from time to time.

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All he wanted was a different number? I thought he liked the number 16?

How come someone that has a different opinion than you is stupid?

I asked who was the 4th and 5th midfielders (support) at Carlton and your first line is… "Campo, Kouta do need financial help……. Poor Leaders ………. Sucking up the salary cap. Blah Blah…Blah Blah....Blah Blah.".

Relevance to my question???? How does that stop Justin Davies from playing good football?

Do you ever answer any of the questions?

You could just cut and paste your last rant. Might save you some time?



If the above is the case. Then why does Denis continue to play them in the middle??? Why doesn’t he put Campo on a half-forward flank? Is Pagan stupid too?? Pull Denis aside the next time you see him and enlighten him on the problems you see at Carlton.



Kelly, Ablett, Enright, Hunt, Bartel and Chapman don’t seem to have a problem helping Ottens, King and Riccardi.

And as I said I want Davies, Sporn, Wiggins, etc to step up like the young Bulldogs have done in the shadows of their more highly paid senior players. Smith, Johnson, Darcy, West, and Rawlings. (Not saying that any of these have under performed)




That’s fantastic news! Someone going to step up to the challenge like a Shane Tuck and become our next star midfielder. Any names?? Who knows they might be able to claim some of the extra $1.5 mil that will be available in the cap next season.

Just who is going to help fill the 97% of the cap? We could offer Marc Murphy 500k over 4 years? Or give Clarke a five year deal for $3.5m

Synbad: Tip for you. (Make your life easier)

Ctrl + C
Ctrl + V

End Rant.

And remember kids. If someone earns more than you and is underperforming. Don't step and try and take their place! Underperform aswell!

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.

You're a better man than me Shakin. I can no longer get through the first sentence of a lot of posts. I have often wondered if a psychiatric assessment would help some with the obvious problems they have. But I guess choice is a great thing about life, just like I have chosen, despite numerous opportunities, never to read Mein Kampf because I'm not at all interested in the ravings of a lunatic.

You're spot on there Josh.
If I was getting paid top money and delivering average results, I would be working my arse off.
I would be first on the track and last off.
I'd be taking the youngsters aside and assisting them with whatever I can, whether it be skills training, extra running etc.
I'd be blocking for Stevens and Kouta and Walker and anyone else so they can get free.
I'd be leading tackles, smothers shepherds, screens....every one percenter there is.
And I'd concentrate on the second and third efforts instead of playing for frees and arguing with umpires.
I'd set the standard so the up and coming players know exactly whats required to drag our team up.

Remind me which of our players does that.
Probably Bowyer, Johnson, Wiggins, Thornton?
What does that tell you about our senior players.

BTW, players dont get huge money because the old board decide to offer it.
A negotiation process actually takes place.
The player and/or manager negotiate a figure.
They tell the club what they are offering eg. skill, ability, leadership etc and a figure is agreed upon.
They dont wake up one morning with 500k in their bank account for no apparent reason.

The players share responsibility as well.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Anyone interested in hearing the entire interview with Denis Pagan can get it at the CFC website:

http://carltonfc.com.au/default.asp?pg= ... &spg=radio

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No thanks.

The arguing here is far more interesting.

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NOW YOU'RE JUST SOME CLUB THAT I USED TO KNOW.

Synbad you know my view on Campo. But if Campo and Kouta are asked to take a cut so should Pagan as l wrote 2 weeks ago and was bagged. Pagan's drop of say $100k-$120k can bring in one part time and one full time assistant to focus on developing our kids.

In addition Stevo's output has been poor this year - he has to refund the club. In fact all the flowers have to refund the club.

None of you answered my questions before. Particulalry number 5. Why cant we compare Campo of 2005 to a MIDFIELDER of the time on SIMILIAR dollars. Thats why I mentioned Bickley, Cousins etc who were on similiar dollars but also playing at a similiar level.
As I said, NEXT year will indicate the way we should measure Campo in terms of dollars v output.

Additionally, even non Carlton supporters can see a change in Campo's game from a free running midfielder to one who concentrates on tackles (which he lead the club in last year and is up there again this year) and other 1%ers. I dont want to get into a statistical argument because we all know how they can be manipulated, but that is a pretty fair illustration of how his game style has changed.

You're other point about encouraging the younger group on and off the field leaves a lot to be desired. First of all, speaking to a few younger players first hand, they all glow in their praise of Campo as someone they can relate to. He has been particularly helpful of Russel and Hartlett, and made an informal offer for them to live with him before they found their own residence.

Secondly, you guys seriously underestimate the intelligience of younger players. Whilst I dont dispute they look up to some of the senior players for guidance (where Campo has ably assisted) it is about time the 20-21 year olds started taking it upon themselves to set their own example. This is what turns average teams into good teams, and unfortunately our 5th year players cant even compare to those of Geelong, St Kilda etc. This isnt a leadership issue, but a mindset issue amongst the players themselves that needs to be seriously arrested.

They need to discover within themselves reasons why they arent playing up to their full potential. Blaming Campo for their poor form is a significant cop out, one that doesnt address the problem.

I have no idea why Synbad keep demanding that Campo et al take a paycut. They already have and Kouta has taken two. Whits was the first to put his hand up a couple of years ago when Collo asked the playing group to take a cut, the rest followed suit. It is on public record but Synbad keeps saying that they didn't. IIRC the contracts where extended a year for the same amount that was to be paid over the shorter term. It is why I find it staggering that they keep gtting accused of being greedy and selfish. If the players had enforced thier orginal contracts ( as they had the right to, but didn't) we would have been stuffed financially and salary cap wise.

Wierd world some live in.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Concentrates on tackles?
I'd suggest you dont want to get into a statistical argument because you are wrong Josh?
Up there again this year?
Campo averages 3.75 tackles per game.
12 Carlton players average more.

As a matter of fact, during the terms of this contract, Campo has been in our top 10 once for average tackles per game.

"Additionally, even non Carlton supporters can see a change in Campo's game from a free running midfielder to one who concentrates on tackles "
........" but that is a pretty fair illustration of how his game style has changed. "


How has his style changed?
I'm not here to bag Campo but if you're going to defend him, at least be factual with your defence.

You also miss the point about encouraging the younger group.
I dont care if Campo is "someone they can relate to".
I want someone who sets the standard on the field.
I'm sure they could relate to Laurie Angwin as well but thats not the issue.
I want our topliners dragging the group along.
Setting the standard for the youngsters to aspire to.
I'm sure the club can worry about where the kids live!

As for players of similar value, perhaps Ricciutto.
Simon Black perhaps?
How about Robert Harvey?
What's the point?
Players recieve contracts for what they WILL bring to the group, what potential they have.
Not for what they have given previously.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Would that be as far back as last season??



Bit like Rawlings, Ottens, Carey, etc, etc, etc.

Campo was paid market value at the time. No-one had a problem then.

Every player manager will tell you that if a player stays at a club "he would have received more on the open market"

Fevola, Dal Santos, Kelly are all cases in point.

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.

As far as I know, Campo is in the last year of a 4 year contract.
So, in effect that would include last year.

Is that difficult to understand?

BTW, Josh asked which midfielders were similar to Campo in terms of remuneration.
I was answering his question.
Are you suggesting I was incorrect?

ps. In case you had'nt noticed, Rawlings, Carey and Ottens arent midfielders.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

So BlueVain your happy with Campo's 1%ers up to this season? Or even JUST last season?

No.
I've not been happy with his one percenters at all but he's not Robinson Crusoe there.

How about if I asked you to tell me how Campo's tackles/per game compares to the list over the last 2 season? Or Even the period of his contract as a whole?

2002. 13th for Carlton
2003 16th
2004 2nd
2005 to date 13th

Comprehensive enough?
Are you happy with those figures.

I thought Campo had been a down hill skier since 2000?

Where have I stated that?
I'm disappointed with Campo's output but then again, I'm disappointed with most of our players.
If people want to portray Campo as some sort of tackling machine or say he has altered his game to become a tackler, surely they must be accountable for their claims?
If we are going to make judgements, lets be armed with the facts.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Sorry Shakin, I quoted you before you deleted your post.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Your too quick BlueVain. All fair points.

PS: I wanted the tackles per game over the 4 year period. Not each year!

1st in total tackles over that period - 182. 13th in avg tackles per game.

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.