Even if you accept that Pagan has failed which I dont I still cant get anyone to give me alternatives to Denis Pagan...the old days are over....no amount of money can buy you success now...its the rebuild from scratch method with youth....accept it...
Look at Malthouse..850K a year, cashed up with money to spend, stable admin but no better than us.....tried the retred route, failed..back to draft picks and youth.....and patience.......
Look at Essendon*..for years the leaders.....Sheedy traded, did the retred stuff clung on to being a midpack team and now where is he..yep...back with Denis and Mick rebuilding with kids.....
Terry Wallace..rebuilding with kids......tell me where the supercoach is who has got another method..give me his name..

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Stop looking over my shoulder.

Don't think we need a super coach. I think we should get someone younger because the game is changing. Gary O'Donnell, Mark Harvey, Barry Mitchell etc and pay them half what Pagan is on.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

McKay and Ratten were at the end of their careers. And there were no embarrassing losses in 2002?

What else is Pagan supposed to do? Maybe we can open the chequebook and buy the best five players from the SANFL, that'll fix it.

What's that? It's 2006? Sorry I thought it was 1986.


Stop whinging, and tell us what Pagan should be doing.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

You just type quicker

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

retiring.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Simple as that hey?

Parkin had superstar lists, hand picked and paid for with brown paper bags that got him those three premierships (not that he wasn't a good coach on top of that).

Pagan had a list full of VFL standard players (Plunkett, Eccles), has beens from other clubs whose best days were behind them (Mansfield, McKernan) and a couple of champions in their auttumn years (McKay, Ratten). Pagan also had no access to the first two rounds of the draft for the next two years.

I'll ask again Game, what should Pagan have done differently aside from keeping the hugely talented Callan Beasy on the list?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Another well thought out reasoned reply.

You clearly have nothing positive to contribute so this discussion.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Plunkett dominated a final. Pagan's boy Wiggins will never be good enough to make a side that plays in one.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

And what'd Plunkett do in 2002?

SFA.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

I think "the game "is suggesting ODonnell, Harvey or the like at half the money is his solution and that the days of the supercoach are over.....Paul Roos maybe gives some cred to that...I'm not suggesting that I agree as i think Pagan initially gave us a kickstart that maybe a no name coach couldnt do and that the club needed a high profile coach initially to get the supporters, sponsors on board with confidence...

_________________
"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Why the Brisbane Lions never picked up Plunkett when we gave him the chop is beyond me too.

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

If Mark Harvey even drives past Princes Park to go to 7-11 for a slurpee I'll be pissed.

The very thought *shudder*

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

This is a good point.

A lower profile coach most likely would not have survived 2003, there would have been a sacking, more instability when we least needed it, less members, less money, even further away from where we are now.

Unless of course that 'other' coach could have made strawberry jam out of pig shit.

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TheGame has a point here and all it seems that the rest of us have is 'hope' that his point will oneday be proven wrong.

@#$%&! I hope so...

The amount of grey areas and opinions that is footy discussion ..I wouldn't think 'concrete' would be used to describe them, Deano.

_________________
The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

I just think there is too big a generation gap between coach and players. Maybe a coach 15-20 years younger could have got through to a guy like Norman who is another talented player to get the boot. A better communicator than Dennis' boot camp 'You f#$% up and we'll send ya home!' style.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Just looked at the topic this thread has gone way way off track and I'll take full responibility for it and I'm sorry. (Something Pagan never has or never will do.)

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Then why didn't one of the younger coaches (Roos, Thompson, Laidley) get hold of Karl Norman?

Because he was a lost cause. A younger coach wouldn't have done shit.

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

You don't know that. There are plenty of talented players that don't play in the big time Deano for whatever reason.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

We tried to trade him didn't we? Nobody wanted him!

Seems these younger wonder coaches that you idolise Game agree with me on this one!

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.