I think we're safe with this one. After the Melb victory, he was quoted in the paper as saying he has "waited 15 years to sing that song".

I don't think he'll be going anywhere

Blackers is blue all the way.

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dane's trolling again

I agree with all of that........

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

Spot on GWS - one should not be made to feel guilty for bagging the Board when they are remiss in their duty.

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“It is a state of mind, a system of belief, a way of seeing the world, a deep faith that, because you are Carlton, you belong to something great.” - Mike Fitzpatrick articulating what Out of the Blue means.

Excellent post BNZ.

There a lot of people on this site that are negative for the sake of it. There is a huge negativity bandwagon rolling around TC that doesn't make sense and the sheep get on board thinking they have some intelligence. But really it is just utter crap and dribble.

What makes me laugh is that these same people use to say Pagan was the best and is what Carlton needed to get premiership success again. They were very happy for Pagan to tow the hard line with players to rid us of the cancer he inherited. His first three years was used removing the cancer from the club (you boys and girls who have the inside knowledge know full well what I am talking about). Now lets give this bloke the opportunity to work with the kids and get this side back up where it belongs. Calling for his sacking is cruel because he has done wonders by clearing the crap out. He may have replaced them with the has beens from other clubs but I would rather a Corey McGrath/Deluca training along side Marc Murphy than Laurence Angwin/Karl Norman (and there were many more). Now Pagan has an opportunity to build something rather than making rash decisions to clean out the dead wood.

Pagan has built the foundations of what will be a successful club. Those who are predicting calamity at every opportunity please book mark this thread and remind yourself how pitiful you were.

There is only one formula that will stop this rot and that is winning games. Most of you can’t see the premiership foundations that Pagan has built but believe me…no Rose Coloured glasses are required. What you need to do if you can’t see it is open your eyes and ignore most of the negative crap that is posted on here.

Winning will help this go away and it is not far away.

Cheers,

Ronnie

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Delulio is a member of TISM

I agree with almost everything you say. However, it was Pagan that brought Angwin and Norman to the club but we were very, very desperate. We knew they were head cases but had to give it a go.

The kids we have now and the ones on the way, will become superstars and take this club to flag(s) - mark my words.

Watching the 1995 Prelim against North the other night - Thornton has no idea what he will be missing out on when success starved Carlton fans start seeing wins on the board. The noise and atmosphere WILL be awesome - sure beat playing at dodgey siren stadium .

When it comes, and it will, it won't be the same old quiet, arrogant blues supporters of yesteryear - It'll be full on 'up your arse everyone' passion that makes much noise

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end of message

Ronnie - you seem to be doing what a number of other people are doing at the moment and lumping everyone into for and against without looking at the broader reasons for their position. Those wanting Pagan removed are somehow negative and those who want him to stay are positive and yet I'm extremely positive about the long term future of the club and yet I want him to go.

I don't think Pagan's the anti-christ but I do think the time's come for him to go. I think he inherited a basketcase at the end of 2002 and it was always going to be difficult to turn it around particularly when you consider the expectations of a supporter base like ours.

I'm grateful to him for what he did over those first couple of years. We were a very sick beast at the time and it was a dirty job. The problem I have now with Denis is more to do with his match day tactics which just continue to astound me with their lack of flexibility.

I have little doubt that with the list that's being created Pagan will be able to get us into the 8 within the next 3 years; there's too much talent being assembled for us to languish where we are forever. What worries me is that when we finally make it to mid-table people will be so relieved and grateful that we're not down in the cellar that we'll continue to employ a coach who seems to struggle on the day. I haven't seen anything in the last 12 months that suggests there's a creative bone in Denis's body.

I'm also concerned with the way he presents to the public. The sayings were amusing for a while (and may well be again if we were winning) but I'm getting extremely tired of the stonewalling. The club needs to sell a vision and all we get from Denis is a golden shower on his dancing sister.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

agree with GWS.Good post.

We could go into this in much depth but on the surface you think he doesn't have much flexibility and you don't like his match day tactics. OK they are your reasons (acknowledged ).

You obviously over rate the players we currently have on our list. I am not going to bag individual players but I know the club is aware of this and are doing things to rectify it i.e. Smorgon's announcement recently to draft young talent is an example - This got the thumbs up from Ronnie but the people with agenda’s gave Smorgo flack for it. What he said was perfect.

Most of our players who should be at their peak in their careers 25-28 year olds probably should not be playing at AFL level. The kids are coming through but are yet to hit their peak. When they do then everything will click, trust me. When Pagan has players who can follow his game plan AND are good enough to make an impression at AFL level (i.e consistently hit a target) then you will find Denis's tactics might start looking good.

All in good time GWS. Pagan wants nothing less than a premiership and I think he deserves the opportunity. There are too many untruths being said on this site that I believe come down to agendas.

Think 17!!!

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Delulio is a member of TISM

I've held off for a long time on commenting about on on field efforts because I was doing exactly as many demand - giving the club time.

But after returning from OS and watching a few games live, well I am appalled at what I've seen.

game plan Pagan wants? WTF is it? Because from what I've seen, none of the players seem to know. Against the bulldogs I watched us time and time again stream through the centre of the ground then, despite having the best FF in the league, we would then go at right angles almost every time. Players seemed totally lost. And it wasn't bad disposal 'stopping' them from hitting targets.

Its not wrong of me to want my club to be the best. I'm only negative becuase I see so much that needs improvement. Why should I pat blokes on the back for a crap job?

Football is a multi-million dollar business yet we seem to be running along like the Manangatang 3rds.

I'm not going to just support the status quo because to do otherwise is somehow traitorous. I support my club and will continue to do so. As I will criticise when it is warranted.

In 30 years of support, this is the direst I've ever seen my club in. I want that changed. Is that wrong?

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Everything before the word "but" is horseshit - J Snow

More likely doesn't rate the role of coaches and their capacity to have an impact on a result. Forgetting about preparation and training for a moment, I reckon a good match day tactition has to be worth at least 3 goals a game.

On a couple of occasions now Pagan's handed over the preparation of the tactics to the players and we've come out, gone one on one and been much more impressive (I think that West Coast game may have been one of those but I may be wrong about that).

We lost a stack of games this year by under three goals and we were playing DUMB football in nearly every one of them. I stayed away from a couple of games I could have attended because I couldn't bear the thought of watching players get the ball, look up and then wonder what the @#$%&! to do next as there was no-one ahead of them.

Can you explain the benefit of a tactic that leaves a player in that situation Ronnie?

These aren't isolated events; it's happening weekly.

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

Hey - where'd you go BV?

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“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb

You're just a Pagan hater!

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

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The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Sorry GWS, I thought that post would inflame the issue.

The over rating the list statement confuses me. As I said, perhaps DIAMOTISM over rates the coach.
In my opinion, when teams let us play man on man football, we stack up pretty well. eg. Wizard Cup 05, Carlton v West Coast 06.
So, in reality we can match up reasonably when the game is played on even terms.

Unfortunately, tactics and different set ups confuse the hell out of Pagan and we go to pieces when anything other than the absolute basic takes place.
How can our kids be educated in strategies and tactics when the coach doesnt understand them?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

All things being equal in terms of the coach, where do you think our list was capable of finising in 2006?

Personally I think we were a bottom 3 side, but I would be interested in your thoughts.

I dont know that and nor do you.
Who knows what the capabilities of the players are?
The development of the players is the overriding factor and if you'd read my posts in the past couple of years, you would know that.
Where we finish is almost irrelevant.

If you disagree with the post you quoted, tell me where and why I'm am wrong.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

is that a reflection that we match up well or that the teams take us easy?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Or that John Worsfold backs his players in to win every one on one contest

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

so not knowing their capabilities how do we judge their development?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!