Difference is Pagan has not been in control of his own environement and was left with a mess to fix.


As for Parkin i saw him in the rooms on sunday and felt like going over and asking him some Kerry OBrien questions and it wasnt the time or place.... or was it????

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I know you like to bag the blues and kick when we are down at the moment Sydney Blue so easy to blame the shift from Optus we had to have ... Yep Blame Pagan ..Blame the board which prob also do need some Blaming ... but i cant understand how you can not see that alot of the problems we have currently are due to the previous administration and i guesss Recruiting policies of 1995 - 2003. I wish you would recognise the mess this club is at the moment.
I dont think too many are having a shot at Parkin he was great for the club in the 80's to Mid 95's in his 2 stints but after 1995 when the draft system was in place both Eliot and Parkin failed to embrace rebuilding especially for a near ageing list. Couple with long contracts trading good picks away for finished players and of course salary rorting. All this has put the club in a very delicate position.
Now Pagan is at the moment will be scrutinised more over the next coming years when he has more say on drafts and actually has picks to use properly. If he fails over the next coming years of course he will be under same pressure as any other coach .. But i wont judge him yet until after this year when i know he has had more input in assiting in clearing some of the mess we have at the moment

10% of the football following public support Carlton.

90% of the football following public support one of the other teams.

90% of the football following public are therefore morons.

What's your thoughts on that?

Just a little on the topic of Parkin and the state that he left the playing list...

Most reasoned observers here would agree that our archiles heel has been a lack of middle aged quality on our list, specifically the 25-27 range.

David left us at the end of 2000.It is worth looking at the list of players in the sub 22 age group at the time of his departure...

Joe Allen 19*
Brett Backwell 20
Adam Chatfield 21
Craig Clarke 21*
Heath Culpitt 22
Jordan Doering 21
Jerremy Dukes 18
Brendan Fevola 19
Simon Fletcher 21
Scott Freeborn 22
Ryan Houlahan 18
Richard Kelly 18
Kris Massie 20
Adam Mathews 18
Andrew Merrington 22
Mark Passador 21*
Adam Pickering 19*
Ian Predergast 20
Murray Vance 20
Lance Whitnall 21

NB * DENOTES A ROOKIE

Pretty ugly is'nt it?....Little reason why we struggle for mature players!

The fact is that the Coach was part of the talent identification process,mentoring and Coaching.There were no restrictions on trading or drafting...

I find it galling to hear David Parkin posturing about our predicament when he was complicit in the debacle that Pagan inherited.

I take that poll as gospel. I take all polls as gospel...polls are the only truths left. Especially football polls that praise Sheedy - I mean it must be true.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Yeah but think about it. Was the Nathan Brown call such a shocker? Really? If he had been playng for Richmond the entire year, the tigers no doubt would have made the finals. Whats wrong with 6-7 years of awesome service. This year he was in the top 5 players in the comp before his injury.

His injury will restrict him but if he was at Carlton he would have played till he was at least 33 IMO. Very fit, awesome skills, awesome goal prescence.

From a building point of view, I wanted to see Walker drafted with our pick (as we haven't done that often). A Nathan Brown, Chris Judd, maybe a couple others are worthy of a No.2 pick

Personally I wanted us to develop a kid, but Parkin's thoughts on trading for a champion like Nathan Brown wasn't too over the top, when you think about it.

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Corinthians 9:6- 8

10% is probably a bit high
and 60% of those morons think Sheedy has more chance .

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I've got no problem with trading a top pick if you can get a 10 year plus player out of it because that's what you're giving up. Brown's a great footballer but considering where we were at even if he does play to 33 the last couple of years are unlikely to be as productive as the first few and you're really only then getting 4-5 at the peak of his powers. Not long enough and it would mean just as we were getting it together he'd be on the way out.

If Judd, Wells, etc had been available then fine as they've still got at least 10 years in front of them.

If we could have picked up Brown in the PSD or for players then I would have had him but not for a top pick. 10 years plus for those.

Nope 10% it is.

There was a major survey done by the AFL Australia wide a year or two back and smack bang on 10% said they followed Carlton.

I'll try to find it.

I would love nothing more than to come on here and praise I hate the position the club is in. Most of you have an opinion I have my. The world would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed with one another.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Dont worry I 'll take your word for it

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws