Seriously, 4-450k for 4 years would be a bargain.
He was touted as the best mark in the game during the season by commentators. Just needs to learn how to kick and have better delivery from the mids.
The guy has played 36 games, so heaps of improvement to go. If a guy can mark, he can learn how to kick like cloke. Similar to what 4thchicken said, but players really turn the corner in the 60-80 game mark. I think Dangerfield and others really turned the corner in the 60-80 game mark.

Considering we paid Warnock 350k and Daisy 750K, l can see why he would be pushing for more money. He is more valuable to the team then those two players in the structure of the team, especially with Waite set to walk by all reports. His agent would be in the back of his ear giving him direction l am sure. Knowing Carlton would be stupid to let him go.

If you pay 400-450k, you know what your going to get now. A good marking forward with kicking to be improved and a lot of upside. If he gets his kicking right, he could boot 50 in a season.

If you don't pay what he wants, he leaves. Carlton need to draft in key forwards or pay 4-450k+ to bring in a forward from free agency or pay Fev 50k a year.

I just love the mentality, pay overs for free agents, higgins, daisy, frawley, scully, but pay less for their own.

$450k a year for 4 years for Levi Casboult is a bargain?

nah ... it's just the reality of footy. market and demand. When the market is small, and demand high you pay overs.

marking forwards, and marking rucks are a bit of a commodity in today's game. Look at the cats when they play the hawks this weekend. Hawkins will play further up the ground and act as a release valve, as the target they kick to break the hawks front half press.

run and carry and a strong marking option, still the best way to beat the press & flood. those kinda players (ie yarran & casboult, clokes etc) will always be overpaid, imo.

Braithy and Goltz = co-managers.

Casboult has one above average skill. Goes missing for months, let alone games. He's shown nothing to suggest that at this point in his career he should be on a salary paying more than league average.

How about this... Why doesn't he back himself and sign a one year deal for 300k now , prove to us all he's a legit, reliable forward and then bang down the door for 500+ over 4 years this time next year.

A $500k player takes that mark vs Freo and impacts the contest at Gibbs' kick last week.

casboult has been a pretty good player for us ... his stats aren't eye-popping, but the structure he's allowed mick. Henderson was in career best form and imo most of that was down to defences for the first time this season couldn't double, and zone off henderson because cas is a legit target.

500k is too much unless its incentive laden. the problem we face is we'd pay overs to bring in anyone else, or if we get a prospect he may not be ready to contribute like cas does.

i sense casboult -- if he works hard this offseason -- will hit the scoreboard next year.

But how much is that?
We have figures of 350k alll the way up to 600k . What figure are you using for your statement?

+ 1000 it's time we start paying value, not overs. If players want money and don't want play for a Premiership they can F@¥£ OFF!

Look at Waite wants 2 years at his age?
Let's get rid of the rock stars and replace them with footballers. It's about the team not your hair cut and privileged boy lifestyle. If want a flag we have to pay value and ask every one to take a slight cut for the sake of the team.

If the Bolt wants $450k then prove yourself on a one year otherwise GAGF.

I thought supply & demand put a value on a player. It must only work when we are trading in!!!!

I agree with what Levi brings to the side structurally, but not convinced we can't get a Leigh Brown type to do just that.

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There's a lot of players we could sign for a lot less money to kick 15 goals and be tall. Even Kreuzer could kick 15 as a permanent forward and he can't mark or lead effectively.

I think that is the issue - no one really knows what is being offered or asked for. Imo, given wheere casboult has come from and the fact that he is a carlton man, security is more important than absolute $$$ (ie long term deal).

For myself I'd have absolutely no issue with locking casboult in on an incentivised 4 year deal - it would be along the lines of

year 1 - 250k base
year 2 - 300k base
year 3 - 350k base
year 4 - 400k base

Years 1 & 2 would have scaling 50k bonuses for @ games played, performance (marks/goals/1%s etc) & BnF finish - ie a maximum of 150k in bonuses. Years 3 & 4 would have similar, but much tougher scaling bonuses but up to 100k for each of the 3 facets (ie max 300k/year)

That would translated to a maximum salary of 400k, 450k, 650k, 700k - with the year 3 & 4 max salaries only being hit if casboult becomes elite.

And what happens if he didnt quite improve as much as we'd like? - assuming he hits midpoint of incentive levels (ie small amount of improvement), that would mean that casboult might end up with

year 1 - 325k (around average AFL salary)
year 2 - 375k (around average AFL salary)
year 3 - 425k (a bit more than average AFL salary)
year 4 - 475k (a bit more than average AFL salary)

More than reasonable and with a contract flexible enough for us to consider trading him in years 3/4...

You guys miss the point.

A leigh brown type? - Prior to the last 6 rounds of the year, casboult's performances (averaging 12 disposals/6 marks/HO's/scoring/tackling) were equal to the best seasons that leigh brown managed. Yes performances dropped off in the last 6 rounds but given that this was his first full season in the seniors, how much of that could be put down to fatigue?

As for your comparison that kreuzer could kick 15 goals as a permanant atll forward - Relevance? Casboult was never played as permanant forward this year - he spent a significant period of time around the ground and even as a forward, was asked to roam much further up the ground.

Or are you suggesting that casboult couldnt manage more than 15 goals a season if he was a permanant forward?

We should be looking at holding onto Casbolt, 400k for an up and coming forward is about right. Tall forwards are hard to find. If he could kick a footy he would be asking for $600 and we would probably pay it.

He will improve with another preseason. As dumb as it sounds its hard to find big men with his agreesion.

Ok, so are you suggesting Casboult played a role Kreuzer has played in the past?

I'm suggesting there's lots of more effective ways we could be spending $400-500k a year than on a potential role Kreuzer could easily manage to fill who is already on the books and a better player.

Casboult has some potential to be an effective forward. Some. Not enough for the $ being bandied about. Not yet, anyway.

They are if your club never bleedin' well drafts any of them.

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No we have tried to some extent. Hartlett, Hampson, Bower, Angwin, Norman, Kennedy (great player but had to trade), Fisher, Razo, Bootsma, Rowe (has come good), Luke Mitchell, McInnes, McCarthy, Simon White (Deepth Player), Marcus Davies, Austin, (no good), Cloke and then Casbolt.

Thank god we got Henderson for Fevola.

although they arnt all Key Forwards, id suggest we tried taking them as KPP's, we just cant develop our players for crap. But i think under malthouse this is changing.

The data suggests it is very hard to find a gun KP forward with a pick > 15. Tippett, Carlisle, Westhoff were outside that range but aren't in the elite bracket.

Carlton haven't used a sub 15 pick on a key forward since Josh Kennedy was drafted in 2005.

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lol what?

kreuzer has demonstrated enough to suggest that he should be played first ruck - not as a ruck/forward. No one has ever suggested that casboult should take that role from kreuzer in the team.

Your statement was that 'Kreuzer could kick 15 as a permanent forward and he can't mark or lead effectively.'- whilst I'm sure kreuzer could manage that as a permanent forward, what is the relevance? Casboult's role in the team this season was never as a permanent forward - even when he was out of the ruck ie forward, casboult played much further up the ground than more mobile options such as waite/henderson.

Or perhaps you are suggesting that warnock should take first ruck and kreuzer should play as ruck/forward in place of casboult? All on the expectation that kreuzer, as a non permanant forward that leads up the ground will easily kick 15 goals/yr? Might I remind you that despite having played 87 more games, 15 goals/season is something that kreuzer has never managed (regardless of whether you look at season stats or based on goals/game averages for seasons cut short by injury)

In that scenario you'd also end up neutering/replacing kreuzer's main benefit to the team ie mid-like attributes around the ground, in order to carry an additional ruckman that does next to nothing aorund the ground...

effes, i would say tippet is in the elite bracket. his a very good footballer.

I dont disagree we havnt selected any with our first picks. well we did take watson aswell i forgot about him.

But our drafting and development not only on KPP but also midfielders has been fairly bad.

We should defiently be holding onto casbolt. buit he isnt worth 600k.

Levi like alot of players at Carlton lacks what I call footy smarts.
Follow up work when he gets to contest and 2nd efforts are no existent.
Watson has the same problem.
Thats what makes Kruezer so good.
Need blokes who can read the play and try anticipate whats going to happen next.
These guys are momentum killers they make dumb mistakes give away stupid free kicks at crucial parts of the game .And it doesn't matter how long they play it never gets out of their game (see J Waite)
At present Ciaran Sheehan has a better understanding and is a better reader of the play than some of these guys who have been in the system for a while

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