Oh is that what we are doing out there?

Well I'm not saying I didn't make a few mistakes...

So regarding Walker - where did Dennis play him on the weekend?
Where did he play Carazzo - off the bench wasn';t it?

and from memory scotland was a defensive midfielder?? is that correct.

Lappin from memory was in defence.

In 2004 he won all-australian.. what possy was he?
I agree, though, cause he did win our goal kicking award one year.



I am just trying to get an idea of where players played on weekend, cause i only saw "the highlights" and didn't go to the match.

Tap in,

We rotated quite a few different players and set ups through the on ball group. At one stage or another we tried Carrazzo Bentick Murphy Scotland Stevens Houlihan Wiggins and Simpson but no one seemed to be able to stop Hayes whilst Powell and Baker interchanged on Stevens and folowed him to the wing.

We played dumb footy and I forget the number of times Bentick made space through the centre corridor and was overlooked. Some of the players seemed IMO to be too Stevens Scotland or Kouta centric and overlooked the other youngsters making space.

It was very obvious from the grandstand IMO that we should have used Bentick more in the 2nd quarter but our players just kept kicking to a contest or around the flanks. It was so obvious that half the time the Saints midfielders didn't run with him but went to Stevens Kouta and Scotland and got numbers around the ball.

They tried DeLuca in the ruck but he didn't have a good game and didn't provide a presence up forward. Kennedy played a poor one and so did Eddie. Simpson started poorly but imo improved as the game went on. Lappin looked slow and disinterested in the first quarter and was dragged. I think the coach may have said something because he came out in the 2nd and started to put in more effort.

When I say some of our players played dumb football I think that instead of playing man on man some of our players went chasing kicks and the Saints then used that loose man to drive the ball long into their forward line. In some instances their wingers hung back at the centre bounce and just waited for the ball to come out to them.

Very disappointed to see Powell hit Kouta 3 or 4 times and the rest of the team not run in to remonstrate. How he didn't get charged with striking is beyond me. Only Scotland came to the party and that said more about the team than anything else.

best part is we took carazzo in the rookie draft b4 Aaron Davey. Another tick for our recruiting dept.

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17 4 10

In these people we trust eh ?

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.

And with this sort of record they could even stuff up the so called 'superdraft'. Maybe we should start a new thread on Carlton's recruiting bloopers - or even a TV show.

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17 4 10

Hindsight is a wonderful thing is'nt it?

The fact is that all 16 Clubs passed him up right through the main draft and then 3 chose not to select him in the Rookie Draft.

Supporters from ALL the Clubs could equally argue that their Recruiters got it wrong.
To single Carltons guys out as cocking it up is drawing a long bow to say the least!

Fact 1 - 2 passed him up in the rookie draft
Fact 2 - this is not the only instance of quality recruiting from CFC
Fact 3 - Carazzo is not up to league standard

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17 4 10

Get the early picks and youll get the best yield.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Roll Call Please!

Kris Massie, Murray Vance, Luke Livingston, Trent Sporn, Simon Wiggins, Jordan Russell

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17 4 10

So let me get this right Carlton Supporters should be the ONLY people to feel let down by their recruiters by missing Davey?

Ignoring that North knew him best,how hard is it to understand that to get to number 4 in the Rookie draft you have to be passed up 70 odd times?

To concentrate on the Rookie Draft misses the point that 16 Clubs several weeks before chose 5 or 6 other players each rather than him.

What did they know that others did'nt?

I don't to God know but i sure as God know that we were not the only one to get it wrong.!

If someone gave you fifty dollars youd complain you cant buy your favourite shoes with it....





You have no idea have you???

see people think im nasty... of course im nasty.. nastiness stems from frustration when i have to read fools type rubbish like this...


Hey barass??? can you give me your plan on how to bring players into the club if its not for the draft????

just out of interest.....????

Id love to see a genius at work....


when you have finished it can you just hum a few bars of your next symphony???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Heard on the airwaves tonight on my way home on SEN I think it was, and it was mentioned that in an interview with Dean Cox from WCE, that he'd said the club invests more $$ & time in the bottom to middle tiered players in terms of development than all the top liners. This is where they build their depth, as they know the A & B grade players can do the job with little coaching & development.

As far as we're concerned, we need to do this to most of our list as we have few A & B graders!!!!

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

that was my point earlier about Carazzo... most players are Carazzos... you have to turn them into footballers...

Everyone else is...

Except us..

Personally i think Carrazzo is going to be a good player.. and Wiggo... and a few others...

My question is how come kids cant improve from where they were when they came to the club when other kids from other clubs do???


Are we burning our kids???

I reckon we are!!!!

Im convinced we are!!!...

If i had a kid id spew if he went to Carlton the way were educating them in their career.

Its not easy for a parent you know??.. or the kid!!!

Sometimes they have to drive 100 kms to go to training or games... Surely they deserve better than what were doing with them once we draft them!!!!

Somethings got to give....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Now Synbad, pick up that dummy will you.

I was stating some facts on our drafting history. I've got no problem with using the draft to bring quality players into the club - in fact we have no choice. I would sack the recruiting dept for their underperformance - why do you think our list is where it is.

Would you keep trusting these guys?

Let's get the best there is - this is what CFC used to do. We now put up with second best - like some of your lame ideas. Any organisation has to hire the best people - in our case it is not just the players. We need to get a president and board members who can rebuild the emotive bond with those members and supporters we have lost as well as have business acumen. We need to assess our org structure to see if we have the right strucuture and, hencewith, the right people for the right positions. Our current malaise can be traced to hiring Brittian as coach - he was not the best available at the time but we listened to Walls and Parkin. We need to rebuild our brand as it is rapidly dimishing value - do you understand what this does to the value of sponsorships? (See Collingwood)

Get the picture now Synbad? Selecting the right draft picks happens after you get everything else right.

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17 4 10

barass.. but that means we didnt get the right picks last year and we should just scrub off murphy and kennedy right now.... !!!

Is that right???

Are you putting a line through their names???

see??... you have no idea about drafting.. to you drafting is sitting in front of a fan ....

But you feel you know enough to comment...

Sure we make mistakes... the main mistakes we were making is trading most of our picks.. its still a numbers game.., more good picks .. more chance of a good player...

Everyone wants guarantees!!!

Do you give your boss guarantees for everything you do???

You know those people who study 10 years to become a surgeon???

You have to sign a waiver in case they @#$%&! up your heart!!!

Who the hell gives guarantees in life???

Youre not even guaranteed you can take a crap at your age without something popping in your brain!!!...

Youre right its not guaranteed.. and we dont have everything right.. but i know first hand the recruiters always do the best they can under challenging circumstances (challenging cos theyre dealing with someones DNA and looking into crystal balls)

But for you to point fingers when your knowledge of drafting in a fan factory trying to sniffl farts is abit rich...!!!

Can people have more flower faith in that side of things???

We are drafting the same kids as everyone else .. but they have different names... the trick is to educate them to become great people and carve out a career for themselves and for us!!!... not that they or the recruiters are no good...!!!

The CFC never had to draft wed take mature aged players from interstate ...

thats different to what we have to do now... which is develop them...


Our malaise started when the AFL came in .. the darft came in and the salary cap came in...

We didnt... draft ... what we did.. was.... we signed everyone who was on our list onto huge contracts over a period of time so they didnt have to come under the salary cap for yearsssssssss.....

and the rest of the years was about beating the salary cap.....

kind of like living your life in a quest to beat death.... its always going to catch up with you.

we still dont get it!!!!

we draft but we dont develop...

we think.. "HEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY...WERE DRAFTING...EVERYBODY LOOK AT US!!!...WERE DRAFTING NOW!!!!!!"


But everyone else is way past that stage and they have been drafting for years.. now theyre working on other things.. like development .. and to improve decision making skills... and things like tactics out on the field...

and were "HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT US!!!.....WERE NOT TRADING EARLY PICKS!!!...ARE WE GOOD????"


Years behind......

Better get smart!!!...FAST!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Collingwood's Blue Collar players:
Dane Swan
Brodie Holland
Paul Licuria
Tarkyn Lockyer
Shane O'Bree
Heath Shaw

None of those listed above have great pace or overly skilful, yet they are playing very good football. I'm not saying all of our players could play to a good standard, just demonstrating that Carrazzo types are so important in allowing your A-graders to play well.

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

Noone loves A graders more than me....

But there has never been ONE SINGLE team that has won a flag without a second and third tier coming together and playing good footy too....

Sure Carazzo isnt Simon Black... but we dont want him to be Simon Black!!!!.. we want him to be an important cog in a good football side that has our versions of Black Aka and Voss...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Well put Effes.
I hope in years to come we'll be able to say the same about a few of our own Effes:

Wiggins
Sporn,
Davies,
Livo, to name a specific few....


But how do they turn it around i wish we knew the answer to that question. Then again some believe we do know the solution, however due to our off field problems we can't even address those issues. Soon though, but maybe not soon enough.. Maybe seasons end 2008... By then we should have picked up some more talent to go with the new .......

You know..

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I know a little secret. And i'm not sharing.