Absolutely, it was fantastic being totally pissed off about losing a game

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Carlton - Nothing's changed
I still love you, oh, I still love you
Only slightly, only slightly less
Than I used to, my love

I'm way happy, not my cunning play can come to fruition:

We will lose to Collingwood. We will beat Essendon*. The Roos will beat us. Hawks will get the wooden spoon and Ellis. We will not get the wooden spoon and get Murphy. Collingwood will get 6 wins and some hack at pick 5.

Everyone will be happy.

Voila.

Fingers crossed!

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I interpret that as taking the piss out of the likes of you

Hook.Line.Sinker.

......................but surely the saints are over the salary cap now and have been for a while.

They are cheating and will get away with it.................for a bit.

Well, I guess it means 'tough shit 16th place side, you finished last & you didn't end up with a god given mortgage on the no. 1 pick. But tell you what, you get pick 4, which still ain't bad at all (Tambling!)' I actually really like mikkey's model...it means you end up with roughly what you deserve under an even system with still enough uncertainty though to ensure sides aren't even considering tanking & nor are the supporters.

I believe the system stinks. I actually think PPs should go altogether...I think there is enough of an evening up effect by simply having a draft order in the first place...but let's benefit from it while the opportunity is there. Hell, at least Carlton chose the right period in history to win wooden spoons

Top thread camel.

For me it was really wierd...I must confess I have dealt with my anguished acceptance of a wooden spoon possibility by replacing it with apathy. I actually went away to Wodonga for the wknd to visit my best mate, missed the game, normally only do that during the season when we have the bye. Because to be honest like a lot of others here I would have just found the whole feeling too....wierd. And besides, I didn't want to get on Danielle & Clint's parochial nerves like I did at the Haw game Subsequently I listened in on the train on the way back to Melb yesterday. Yes when Lappin bombed the goal from 50 & I heard the crowd roar I thought how in the HELL could I not be hoping for Carlton to do anything but win...but, well....you know! I just really wasn't too shattered at all that we lost. Which is hard to swallow, just thinking back to some of the insults I hurled at Saints fans a year or so ago on TBV about their club only being good because of how shithouse they were before that. But I just think it's the only way a Vic side can match it with the non Vics!!

Short term pain, long term gain. Synbad recognises this & probably a good example is Geelong. No top draft picks & guess what? They're a VERY GOOD side....but not a PREMIERSHIP side, no matter what anyone says!!

Let's all revisit this thread in November, as that's what it applies to.

As an aside, anyone watch ch 9's coverage of the Roos/Pies? The ch 9 cameras crossing to the box at the perfect times...the dramatic displays of disappointment (from the coach, pres, coaching staff) once the game slipped away...the cynic in me says it all seemed a bit contrived...

Go Blues. (For the long haul)

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#DonTheStash

How do I feel now?

This thread gets added to the list of "things that suck."

Not for any effort of Camel's, mind you. It started sucking as soon as it became a "yes" "no" Tank thread.

Sucks.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I was thinking about this a bit further last night. I reckon PPs should be given the arse as well, however I also think the qualification period for the regular draft should apply over more than one season. Stuffed if I know how it could actually work, but rather than having a Melbourne like effect where a team just bascially underperforms, rather than just being crap, at least working out draft selections over multiple years will help ascertain just how crap a side is. This may not really affect selections by all that much anyway as, in theory if you win the flag one year and come last the next you'd end up with a middle round selection (I guess), but maybe it is better, if more complicated, than just working the entire draft off one year's results.

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I hate to lose see the Blues lose but would hate to end up on 5.5 wins and miss out on a PP.

I cannot help but barrack for the win and will continue to do so. It is not joy that I feel if we lose, but solace.

I console myself with the thoughts of who we might pick up to improve our list.
I console myself with the knowledge and evidence of continuing development of the younger players.

I would have loved to have beaten Port but that would have left me with the dilemma of not being able to unequivocally barrack for a win against the Pies and/or Bombers.

In my opinion the best case scenario for the remaining games is to draw with Collingwood and beat the Bombers, or draw with Pies, Bombers and the Roos.

Why barrack for a draw with the Pies? Well, Collingwood plays Adelaide and the Western Bulldogs in their other remaining matches so would be odds on to qualify for a PP if we beat them. It would just be so sweet for us not to lose against them but also to deny them any priority pick.

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“Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile a way and you have their shoes."

I have entertained similar thoughts about both PP and the draft system.

A club that has a quality list that suffers a few key injuries can qualify for early picks, yet when their injured players return they have obtained an advantage over sides that did not suffer from short term set back.

Taking into account the average ladder position over a few years ala Camels suggestion would be good, but I am sure that the combined wisdom of the administration staff at the AFL can come up with something just as equitable as some of their decisions in the past. Surely Ron and Andrew would not take any delight in doing away with priority picks in a year that would have seen Carlton secure some small advantage. I know.... what about a rule that disallows draft picks all together for the sides that have won the most premierships. Keep this system in place until all 16 sides are equal.

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“Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile a way and you have their shoes."

Congrats and welcome to the club Molsey. Good to see you've changed your tune! See The Light Brother!!

In answer to Camel's question, I was very happy with the result yesterday. We were competitive, showed good endeavour, the kids played extremely well and we are closer to getting the Pee Pee. I barrack for our young players more than the win these days!

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When Dick became President, it was as if everyone at Carlton came out of the hailstorm and into the sunshine - Stephen Kernahan

YARRAN!!





.

We are THAT BAD that without the priority pick we will be shit kicking around the bottom for a long long time.
You all want to be winner but youre in effect losers.
You cant be a winner by winning every now and again.
You can be a winner if you have a side that everyone fears...

So in effect those of you that are hoping to win the odd game are actually wanting to be losers.
Thats the system.. thats how it goes...

Like it or lump it!

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Understand the logic of using the system but dont subscribe to "tanking" how do I feel?...enjoy watching the young players but generally the game doesnt have the same interest for me as it did and I dont enjoy it as much mainly because the system has turned the game into a farce where their are two winners now....the GF winner and the team who comes last also wins courtesy of the crazy draft system....rewarding mediocrity doesnt sit right with me.

Might as well forget about the game itself ...for some the game is played on national draft day...if its all about getting the best picks, why bother turning up and playing the game if you end up with a crap number of picks in a year. Turn it into a board game where the idea is you lose as many matches as possible and then the winner is the one who can get the most high draft picks...first one to five top fivepicks wins...
Its so absurd we are all hanging out for draft day each year...and maybe for the next three or four years....the actual games are now irrelavent until we have a bevy of top five picks on our list...dont bother paying your membership for that period as we are in limbo.....

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

spot on Elwood! A baord game - that's it this is monopoly get mayfair or get stuffed!

as for losers Synbad - there are all kinds of losers. You just happen to yell louder - doesn't make you right or wrong, winner or loser - just louder.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

We DO need the PP but the two players wont help the club for at least 2 years. We need a HUGE injection of talent and we need to clear the DUDS. We need at least 3 first rounders and 2 second rounders. The only way to get this is by aggresive trading, no one except thronton, waite and walker should be considered un-touchable.

It doesnt start there. We need a new, smarter game plan. We can keep the old one but we need a plan B. Something to catch oppostion sides of there guard and something that plays to our strengths.

The two priorites for the club should be the SPine nd the Midfield. The spine is shocking, with no established KP backman and only one real key forward. Waite and Fish are good but neither a power forwards YET.

The midield aint to flash either. We only have stevens, simmo AB and only a few others. I reckon Bret Thrnton should play midfield once we got a few decent defeders (Marcus Drum come on down). Has size and smarts and I dont no about the pace department but he would be an ecxellent link man comeing out of the backlines with his good skills and vision setting up play.

This is a long list of problems to fix and I have barely scratched the surface. It is going to take more than a PP to fix these problems. It means we are going to have get used to been in the bottom half of the ladder for a while. If we go around 7-12th forthe next few years we will be in the Geelong situation, good side but not really a real premiership contenender.

These are just a few ideas out of left field and most of them a probably wrong.

Supposing Digby is not in our plans for next year but he is a more mature body being played this year but wont be there next year. This would mean Hartlett is being played this year but he is our future . is that tanking????

Thats not tanking!!!!

You guys are losing the plot!!!!

Playing Digby this year if he isnt in our long term plans is camouflaging our problems.... and we might get a couple of wins in with blokes like him who mightnt be in our plans next year.. So in fact were not at a real stage on where the club is at.

But i suppose some of you would love players like Digby who arent in our plans to help the club win 2 extra games .. not get the priority pick and not be at the club next year....

Anything for a win eh????

Good on ya!!!

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No I'd play Hartlett - if he was ready to play. But if he wasn't ready i wouldn;t use him to get a loss.

of course you must plan long term. Like playing waite a year in the ressies then when ready play him in the firsts. Don't expect too much that first year but the expereince etc. makes sense.

But that is different to picking the side you think will lose you the game regardless of future plans cos the only plan is to lose and gain the P.P.'s


Say you knew playing Hartlett would be great for the kid but playing Digby meant you'd lose - who would you play. Hartlett for long term development or Digby for the loss?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

What im saying is no use okaying bigger bodies when theyre not going to be there next year just for the sake of winning a game at the expense of playing kids like Simmo who was on and off .. he could have played 35 games aged 21 .. but he didnt cos his body was going to be pished around so hes played like 20.

But playing Digby and winning a game next week at say FF if Fev was rubbed out would have meant Digby may have kicked 5... but then whats the point if he wone be here next year?????

But by not playing him and developing Setanta are you tanking???
By playing Russell instead of Campo or Lappin would you be tanking or developing for the future????

By not playing them now its taking longer to get them to a level required to be an AFL footballer.. so are you tanbking future games because theyre not developed earlier???

I really think some of you should learn perspective and patience and realise that winning BULLSHIT GAMES today does not mean the club is going FORWARDS.....!!!!!!!!!


Youre just being pathetic little small picture people with no concept about what is important for the long term....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Would you play Russell or Chambers/ Longmuire???... considering Longmuire was hardly on the field...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I get the feeling Synbad has already told us of Digby's fate for 2006.

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24