and what was your point BB?

That Game is more tactically astute because he makes it to more games than I?

He's so tactically astute that he named Mark Harvey as a potential replacement for Denis "what's he done beside coach the dominant side of the 90's" Pagan. If that's astute then I'll happily remain ignorant, if it's all the same with you.

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

Um No.

I just thought it worth commenting on that what people see at the actual games is far more than us armchair experts see. You said something about having a T.V? I just meant that one can see more being there than on T.V....this was particularly brought to my attention quite a number of times over at CSC where I have jumped to a conclusion after watching it on T.V only to have some blokes who were actually there jump in and tell me the real story.

_________________
The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger

Look in a lot of instances the TV viewers get a much better view. They see who is getting the ball out from under those packs, they always get a close up view of where all the action is.
I was talking about team tactics and formation when I suggested to Deano if he could see what people at the games can see. He over dramatised it and turned it into something it wasn't.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I agree with Deano here.
Even if he lived in Melbourne, he wouldnt know shit!

(Sorry Deano but it was like the precious ring in the movie. I tried to avoid it but couldnt)

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

That's about the best post in the last 6 pages

_________________
Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I reckon Sheedy's after Braddles 'cos he's desperate to find out about our game plan....

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Game that is a valid point but people that have watched footy for a long time also understand what is happening that you dont see on the screen as well.

I still play footy and when watching I treat it as a learning experience as well as an entertaining one. I consider my knowledge pretty good and can quite easily see what is happening in the background without being there. With the pace of the game these days its pretty easy to spot unaccountable players without seeing them. The amount of times over the past few years I have seen certain players getting cheap kicks when we have numbers at the ball only for there to be no forward options and then watch as their direct opponent ends up with and hurts us.

So this Bradley fellow..is he any good?

_________________
Oompa loompa doompety dee
If you are wise you'll listen to me

Omar Bradley was a U.S. Five Star General....that's fairly impressive.

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Ross Lyon! So who is coaching again BV?

Liked him too but really at the point we were at we needed a name to coach this side, if it had not have been Denis it would have been Wallace or Eade. Someone with a name. We were broke, [REDACTED] and going nowhere. Rosds Lyon - shit the memebers would have burnt down O.O to the ground and pissed on the smouldering ashes.

Context please. It seems to me few want to look at the context this club was is, is in and will still be in for a couple more years and i'll say it again while I often do not agree with Synbad at least he is looking at context and not just stamping hois foot like a spoiled child - no hang on, he does stamp his foot like a spolied child but at least in context

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

so is Braddles confirmed for Essendon*?

This is the latest word from The Age:

http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/arti ... 67189.html

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Craig Bradley was a great player but he was selfish in his end of contract dealings and refusal to train with the club.

Denis Pagan hasn't worked any miracles. Instead of a list comprising a smattering of twilight years stars within a sea of crud we've now got a list with a smattering of crud amongst a sea of promising youngsters. That is an improvement for mine.
Had we taken on a "Home Brand" coach instead of Pagan we'd now be on our second, possibly third coach since Brittain was sacked IMO.

Some of our supporters need to be dragged into the present and stop looking misty eyed at the champion era of the past expecting the clubs legacy to pull us through.

_________________
"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

Words of wisdom Woj....we've been spoiled for so long, it's obviously been too hard for people to accept the Club is struggling against the tide; and trying damn hard to get our heads above the water.

_________________
No ones listening till you make a mistake.

Ross Lyon.
Spent 4 years as an assistant coach at Richmond before being poached by Carlton.
Very highly rated by Carlton and worked as an assistant under Parkin, Brittain and Pagan.
Coached Carltons VFL side for 3 years and extremely highly regarded by the players as a great educator.

My mail is he didnt agree with Pagans "big stick" method of coaching and accepted an offer at the Swans.
Has been the coach of the Swans midfield for 2 years.

From memory they went OK in 2005.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

now I didn't ask who he was assisting, rather if he was a head coach anywhere? Perhaps not ready to take it on just yet.

And for the record the games I saw him coach, the manner with the players in the huddles was absolutely brilliant but you;ve stated youd have had him before Pagan which is a bloody big call considering he has not even got a senior coaching job with anyone - Do you know if he has applied for any?

If not, then he doesn't feel ready or doesn't want to do it.

if so and not successful - why?

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

just while I think of it BV - the rucks - now dempsey stated in the article that he was trying to get our rucks to push forward yet you saw them dropping back which is disappointing for mine. Do you think they lack the nous or the confidence to push forward, or did it seem like they were acting under instructions?

yours confused

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

FAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWK ME!!!!.. just look at you all.. fighting like children.
Its downright disgusting!!!!
























Im not even involved....


Look the club is a failure at almost every level.
The list is weak.
The board is weak.
We have no money.
We have a coach that hasnt been able to turn the tide...

BUT!!!!.. with an influx of good youth and talent we will be back. (4 to 6 years)
No Bradley or Campo... no Kouta or Lance

Denis will be gone.

The board will be deifferent...

And when we have a side thats challenging again.. and not just another also ran.. we will again be TOP DOG!!!!

But we have to be patient.
Stop living in the past....its not going to happen overnight.. and the faces will be all new/ newish.

Give me Betts and Russell, Walker and Kennedy.. give me Flint and the OhAilpins.. Bentick and Hartlett..

Youre giving me a future not pissing in my pocket about the past...
The past is exactly just that.... just a memory.. but i dont live in the past....

I think thats where im different to people like Surrey and The Game and a few others....

Get it through your heads.`... the past is gone...things are different.. on ifs no buts.. they just are!!!...

Were rebuilding and Rome wasnt built in a day....!!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

No, Danny you asked who he's coaching.



No, you're incorrect again young man.
Someone asked who was available as a potential coach and I mentioned his name.
I didnt mention Pagan.

But for the record, yes I would take a mix of Lyon and Mitchell over Pagan and Elshaugh.
IMHO the basic message our players are looking for is inconsistent and I dont believe they have total confidence in the abilities of coach.
We have spent 3 years trying to get them to alter their instincts of creative football and now we're trying to reinstate it.

I believe we are reactive, the coaches are looking for answers instead of giving them and we are tactically well below average.
As for taking on an inexperienced coach, Lyon is far more experienced than Worsfold or Roos were.
You remember them? The Grand Final coaches.

We are too conservative and scared to take a risk.

As a supporter I wasnt keen on Pagan but I upped my membership to help the club. Our members rallied to help the club survive, they didnt rally because we had Pagan.
As for the sponsor argument, thats crap as well. I know several sponsors and they associate with the club because they

a. Support Carlton and are trying to help

or

b. They are getting value for money.

This wont be a popular view but its just my opinion. I'll support the club whether Pagan or anyone else coaches but if I had the option, I'd look to the future.

As for the match simulation, the ruckmen for both sides were instructed to drop back across half back which they consistently did.
Dempsey was actually on the field instructing them where to stand.

_________________
Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

so what was he on about? Now that's confusing.

as gfor pagan well we'll just keep disagreeing. I agree with synners that Denis probably will not be around in 6 years but I still think he was neccessary - from my understanding this club was close to total collapse, having the name Denis Pagan helped (wasn't the only factor but a factor).

I see him and collo as both very important to the stabilization/continuation of his club. I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

I also think Denis has helped arrest the culture at this club - ergo braddles, and others are gone, not because they were arseholes etc, but because they were conditioned to an outmoded and dangerous culture this club had embraced - I mean dangerous because this club teetered on the brink.

We'll never know how hard that work has been but i do believe this club was close to going under - I do not believe that anymore and so for mine Denis has been successful.

Plus I do like the list being assembled.

And I did like a lot of what I witnessed dureing that whizzfizz and i still believe the things you are talking about began last year and ar ebeing stepped up because we now have a bit more flexibility (albiet extremely youthful) and far more grunt in the engine rtoom ( though still with a ways to go).

if denis manaes more than 5 wins this year I'll be amazed, but if during the year we see more of that intensity and dash we saw last summer and more new faces being tried, I'll be happy.

as for Lyon, I'd love him back at carlton but i still want to know has he tried to take on the top job elsewhere and i'd ask the same about Mitchell. its no good giving me alternatives who do not even wish to be alternatives yet.

Finally i agree with the thought that a young coach would have been lucky to last a year with that list and those penalties. the first three years have all been about trying to stabilize. Or so i believe.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!