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BlueWorld · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm **Posts:** 3768

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

verbs · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:58 pm

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

There's no denying that, but a no-name wouldn't have saved his skin, Christ, a big name didn't, but it was the only trump card he had left, even though he was ultimately beaten.

Then, as someone mentioned, Pagan got a list which had a player split...based solely on the treatment of Brittain, his sacking, and the resentment was aimed at Pagan...again the doing of Elliot.

Plus, salary cap rorting meant new blood couldn't be injected.

High qulaity players walked, or were sacked, or made to retire, or felt they had to retire.

It was one very toxic cocktail during the period 2002-03.

dannyboy · **Posted:** Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:07 pm

yes JE tried to save his skin and also this club (that he had [REDACTED]) so the point of who we should have hired seems to me to involve which high profile coach should we have hired.

Synbad · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:03 am

Lyon unleashed a wave of abuse to a kid who wasnt on our list but was coming to the club for a training session from the TAC.
It was over the kid coming late... ..the kid was devastated by the intensity of the abuse the told to "piss off"

.. it turned out the kid was given the wrong instructions by the club.

camel · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 7:18 am

Ouch!

Blue Vain · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:35 am **Posts:** 18309

Talk to the players who were at the club 2 years ago and ask them what they think of Lyon.
Very high praise.

TheBluesMuse · **Joined:** Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:27 pm **Posts:** 5277

Synbad wrote:

Lyon unleashed a wave of abuse to a kid who wasnt on our list but was coming to the club for a training session from the TAC.
It was over the kid coming late... ..the kid was devastated by the intensity of the abuse the told to "piss off"

.. it turned out the kid was given the wrong instructions by the club.

So what... He'd get over it and it would all be forgotten.

Wojee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:17 am **Posts:** 35163

BigBlind wrote:

Synbad wrote:

Lyon unleashed a wave of abuse to a kid who wasnt on our list but was coming to the club for a training session from the TAC.
It was over the kid coming late... ..the kid was devastated by the intensity of the abuse the told to "piss off"

.. it turned out the kid was given the wrong instructions by the club.

So what... He'd get over it and it would all be forgotten.

But we've got people on this site who claim that Pagan bawling out players is part of the reason we're so shit.

Dukes · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:35 pm

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

Pagan was chosen because he was the most highly credentialled candidate at the time - end of story.

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 2:41 pm

Dukes wrote:

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

Pagan was chosen because he was the most highly credentialled candidate at the time - end of story.

Bingo.

As if you'd want Wallace or Eade at the helm at this point, or at any point for that matter, in our rebuilding phase.

spuddie · **Joined:** Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:07 pm **Posts:** 236

Synbad wrote:

Lyon unleashed a wave of abuse to a kid who wasnt on our list but was coming to the club for a training session from the TAC.
It was over the kid coming late... ..the kid was devastated by the intensity of the abuse the told to "piss off"

.. it turned out the kid was given the wrong instructions by the club.

Was Lyon also the person "guilty" of not asking Andrew Lovett back after he had played a few promising games in the Reserves one season?

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:22 pm

phoenix johnson wrote:

Dukes wrote:

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

Pagan was chosen because he was the most highly credentialled candidate at the time - end of story.

Bingo.

As if you'd want Wallace or Eade at the helm at this point, or at any point for that matter, in our rebuilding phase.

I think clarification is required here

1. Briitain was only sacked once Pagan was signed

2. There were several high profile coaches available at the time and Elliott spoke to heaps including a lot of media commentators - Pagan happened to be one that accepted his massive offer

Deano Supremo · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:24 pm

Sydney Blue wrote:

phoenix johnson wrote:

Dukes wrote:

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

Pagan was chosen because he was the most highly credentialled candidate at the time - end of story.

Bingo.

As if you'd want Wallace or Eade at the helm at this point, or at any point for that matter, in our rebuilding phase.

I think clarification is required here

1. Briitain was only sacked once Pagan was signed

2. There were several high profile coaches available at the time and Elliott spoke to heaps including a lot of media commentators - Pagan happened to be one that accepted his massive offer

So who was there with better credentials than Pagan that didn't accept?

phoenix johnson · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:26 pm

Sydney Blue wrote:

phoenix johnson wrote:

Dukes wrote:

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

Pagan was chosen because he was the most highly credentialled candidate at the time - end of story.

Bingo.

As if you'd want Wallace or Eade at the helm at this point, or at any point for that matter, in our rebuilding phase.

I think clarification is required here

1. Briitain was only sacked once Pagan was signed

2. There were several high profile coaches available at the time and Elliott spoke to heaps including a lot of media commentators - Pagan happened to be one that accepted his massive offer

Disagree with that.

Pagan was the biggest name available at the time.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:55 pm

Blight available- comparable record
Wallace
Eade
Healy was interviewed
Dermie was interviewed
Lyon was available
Craig was Available
Worsfold was getable

Lots of potential out there also- Williams - Kernahan- Dean - Mithcell- ETC ETC

Also there are coaches in other sports who could also be looked at afterall Pagan is supposed to be a motivator his tactical knowlegde of the game is questionable at the best of times.

Think outside the circle.

Face it Pagan was appointed as a last ditch effort to save Elliotts arse and who among us wasn't excited when he was appointed - who among us didn't think he was going to be our savoir - I was until I met the bloke and saw him in action

verbs · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:24 pm

phoenix johnson wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

phoenix johnson wrote:

Dukes wrote:

BlueWorld wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

I disagree that at the time of Brittain sacking we should have gone with unknowns. We needed to land a name - especially since we couldn't land a player 'name'.

Pagan was chosen by Elliott to try to save his skin.

Pagan was chosen because he was the most highly credentialled candidate at the time - end of story.

Bingo.

As if you'd want Wallace or Eade at the helm at this point, or at any point for that matter, in our rebuilding phase.

I think clarification is required here

1. Briitain was only sacked once Pagan was signed

2. There were several high profile coaches available at the time and Elliott spoke to heaps including a lot of media commentators - Pagan happened to be one that accepted his massive offer

Disagree with that.

Pagan was the biggest name available at the time.

Who cares? Elliot was trying to save his skin, end of story.

JohnM · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:34 pm

Dermie - wtf???

Gerard Healy - wtf???

Kernahan, Williams, Dean, Mitchell - again, wtf???

I think you're scraping the bottom of the barrel to make a point here SB.

Getting the carlton coaching job in '02 was pretty much the poison chalice of AFL coaching jobs.

No-one, not Worsfold, not Craig, not Wallace, not Eade, would have got us into the top 8. Don't tell me that anyone in the football world was placing Craig and Worsfold and co. ahead of Pagan at the end of '02. To suggest otherwise is just revisionism.

The question is not should Pagan have been signed at the end of '02, but should he have been re-signed at the beginning of the year?

In many ways, it's hard to say. Personally, I think that at the end of '02, by all objective measures, we were f***ed for a good 5-8 years. And any assessment of coaching/board personnel needs to be conducted at the end of that period. So I'll be reserving my judgement until '07-'09.

It's not fence-sitting, it's being objective and realistic.

BlueWorld · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:28 pm **Posts:** 3768

JohnM wrote:

Getting the carlton coaching job in '02 was pretty much the poison chalice of AFL coaching jobs.

At the time Pagan was appointed we were still expecting to get the top draft choices. Penalties weren't announced until after the appointment on the eve of the draft.

Sydney Blue · **Posted:** Fri Feb 03, 2006 4:52 pm

John we could go down the old lines but loosing a handful of kids should not f*#k as side for 5-8 years - Dont care what any one says. We rant on here over the loss of draft picks and who did we loose - Godard- pfft- Wells done nothing yet - all other supporters are calling the 2002 a bigger dud draft than 2000 where Livo and co came from.

Pagan may have been the best option available but he has not performed .

and as I have said a 1000 times before - I could have coached this side and came last.

The game has past him by and he is not the messiah we all thought he would be . the club needs to realise this and move forward and not keep a bloke on because of his past record. supporters are suggesting we cant afford to pay him out. I am suggesting can we afford another spoon and an another year of sub standard performances- look at the effect it had on the crowds towards the end of the year I bet it cost the club far more than paying out a coach who persisted with game plan that was getting us thumped every week.

The diehards and the internet community can see what he is trying to do . The average Joe that takes his kids to the footy just looks at our results.

jbee · **Joined:** Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:29 pm **Posts:** 534

Sydney Blue wrote:

John we could go down the old lines but loosing a handful of kids should not f*#k as side for 5-8 years - Dont care what any one says. We rant on here over the loss of draft picks and who did we loose - Godard- pfft- Wells done nothing yet - all other supporters are calling the 2002 a bigger dud draft than 2000 where Livo and co came from.

Pagan may have been the best option available but he has not performed .

and as I have said a 1000 times before - I could have coached this side and came last.

The game has past him by and he is not the messiah we all thought he would be . the club needs to realise this and move forward and not keep a bloke on because of his past record. supporters are suggesting we cant afford to pay him out. I am suggesting can we afford another spoon and an another year of sub standard performances- look at the effect it had on the crowds towards the end of the year I bet it cost the club far more than paying out a coach who persisted with game plan that was getting us thumped every week.

The diehards and the internet community can see what he is trying to do . The average Joe that takes his kids to the footy just looks at our results.

Sydney,

Do you think Denis being coach has had anything to do with our record membership numbers since he has been at the club?

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