Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Fri Jul 18, 2025 10:55 pm

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:25 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 9:27 pm
Posts: 5270
Knackers wrote:

Simpson, Bentick, Carrazzo, Betts etc. played there best footy when allowed to settle into a role. Many are still spending too much time in and out of the team, on and off the bench and in a host of different positions.


Carrazzo played some good footy down back in the last half of last season.

But would we then accuse Pagan of not being able to coach if he didn't make changes while trying to keep the youngsters to one position?

_________________
The problem will be made. for the solution to be sold, to your face before your eyes, tolerance is now the new danger


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 6:35 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
so Denis can do nothing right? You do not feel that might be slighlty unbalanced?

or maybe he does some things right, some wrong and because we have not improved significantly he becomes the goat to be chased out of town?

my concern with Denis is i think he has lost his nerve

but I had concerns about Parkin

couldn't stand Brittain

hated Walls

Loved Jezza
and so on.

I accept my concerns are more to do with my passion for the club than any reality but even those I hated most I never ever thought they did nothing right - to me that is plain earth is flat material.

I am sick and tired of the black and white around here. By all means have concerns - being a bluebagger you should have - but lets not try and paint him as the devil, that just belittles the argument and might even lead us into the stupid realm of taking anyone else out of desperation - sound familiar?

I want this club to be balanced and measured (yeah BV all those things I'm not). The more we rant and rave and go on about ridiculous things like Denis has done nothing right and everything wrong, the more we set up an atmposphere of a desperate club - the more we will become Fitzroy.

At the heart of all this is why I often disagree with Synbad - not because I think he is wrong, but because he only ever paints one side of the picture and to me that can create an unbalanced air - not unbalanced for Synbad, but unbalanced as a club.

Denis is no longer the right man, I agree not because he never was, not because he cannot coach (in an 'ever' sort of way) but because now, at this point, he is not coaching well and we as a club cannot afford someone to not be coaching well. We are teetering. We need strength, unity and purpose,

not a Salem's lot of garbage.

So whenever I see that wagon dragging a poor sod through the streets I'll question the finger pointers. It is important to be sane in our assessments not turn the club into a mini crucible where everyone is sacrificed and everything important is lost. To me that is far more dangerous for this club that Denis is.

That's all.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:06 pm 
Offline
Stephen Kernahan
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:17 am
Posts: 18783
Location: threeohfivethree
dannyondrugs wrote:
I am sick and tired of the black and white around here.


I once had high expectations of online football sites too... :cry:

Still does my head in that I keep coming back for more... :?

_________________
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn't become a king. The palace turns into a circus.”
Turkish Proverb


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:14 pm 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
me too

I keep saying just stay away

but this site is like a scab that you just keep picking at 8)

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:30 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:41 pm
Posts: 63509
dannyboy wrote:
so Denis can do nothing right? You do not feel that might be slighlty unbalanced?

or maybe he does some things right, some wrong and because we have not improved significantly he becomes the goat to be chased out of town?

my concern with Denis is i think he has lost his nerve

but I had concerns about Parkin

couldn't stand Brittain

hated Walls

Loved Jezza
and so on.

I accept my concerns are more to do with my passion for the club than any reality but even those I hated most I never ever thought they did nothing right - to me that is plain earth is flat material.

I am sick and tired of the black and white around here. By all means have concerns - being a bluebagger you should have - but lets not try and paint him as the devil, that just belittles the argument and might even lead us into the stupid realm of taking anyone else out of desperation - sound familiar?

I want this club to be balanced and measured (yeah BV all those things I'm not). The more we rant and rave and go on about ridiculous things like Denis has done nothing right and everything wrong, the more we set up an atmposphere of a desperate club - the more we will become Fitzroy.

At the heart of all this is why I often disagree with Synbad - not because I think he is wrong, but because he only ever paints one side of the picture and to me that can create an unbalanced air - not unbalanced for Synbad, but unbalanced as a club.

Denis is no longer the right man, I agree not because he never was, not because he cannot coach (in an 'ever' sort of way) but because now, at this point, he is not coaching well and we as a club cannot afford someone to not be coaching well. We are teetering. We need strength, unity and purpose,

not a Salem's lot of garbage.

So whenever I see that wagon dragging a poor sod through the streets I'll question the finger pointers. It is important to be sane in our assessments not turn the club into a mini crucible where everyone is sacrificed and everything important is lost. To me that is far more dangerous for this club that Denis is.

That's all.


Brilliant, Danny.

More sense in this post than I've seen in about 1000 others on the main board combined.

_________________
And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:32 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 3136
dannyboy - Its never black and white around here - only shades of blue ;)

I've always thought that our list wasnt that bad in 02 (call me an optimist if you will) and that we are capable of doing a lot better than we have been in the pagan years. The counter arguement for that has always been that we have a list full of duds in prender, wiggins, livingston, sporn, davies and that is why we are on the bottom. Perhaps though they arent complete duds, but just young players that havent been developed properly.

My view though is that the youth we had wasnt actually that bad - each of the players listed above have shown signs of having 'it' at some point in their careers - its just a matter of confidence - with which will come consistency. Just like wiggins has started to show - Just as prendergast showed a couple years back when french was injured - Just as ALL the above duds show on numberous ocassions in the bullants.

From the HUN today on chris hydes development under wallace...

Quote:
Wallace takes up the story: "In my first two weeks at the club I told the players we were going to play a free-flowing, running, carrying (the ball) style of game.

"It was similar to the style we had in place at the Doggies. It was the style I liked . . . 16 goals a game . . . blokes who can play for the baulk and run and carry.

"In the first couple of training sessions preparing for that style, Chris approached me for a private conversation and said, `I can't do this. I'm a tagger. I can run with a bloke and take him out of the game, but I'm not an offensive player'."

Wallace's response was short and to the point. "I think you are. You're selling yourself short, and if you're not going to adapt to what I want, you mightn't be here long," he said.

Hyde took the advice on board and set about transforming himself.

"After about a month he was running around, baulking blokes and doing things no one had ever seen before," Wallace said. "My reaction was, `I've created a monster' and the boys nicknamed him that and it's stuck."

Hyde, recruited from Barooga in New South Wales, just across the border from Cobram, this week sheepishly recalled the conversation with his coach.

"I think when he first came down everyone was a little apprehensive and wasn't really sure what to expect – if he liked you, and if he didn't like you, and how he wanted you to play," Hyde said.

"I was probably in that boat. I was a little unsure at the start, but he encouraged me to play an attacking style of footy and that's what I tried to do.

"The year before Terry came, I played all year as a run-with tagger, and that was probably my first year of playing consistent senior footy.

"So when he came I thought I'd be doing a similar role, and was a bit unsure if I could do anything else."



Compare that to the bench and 'nothing' roles that pagan gives our younger players - Positive encouragement or splinters - I know which one I would prefer.

Giving periphery players minimal game sends a message that the coach/club doesnt think the players are good enough.

Filling the list with retreads sends a message that the coach/club doesnt think the players are good enough

Constant flooding sends a message that the coach/club doesnt think the players are good enough

Sending one of your most influential forwards to the backline sends a message that the coach/club doesnt think the players are good enough

Bemoaning the lack of skills and superstars at the club sends a message that the coach/club doesnt think the players are good enough

Recruiting an over the hill, injury plagued, TWICE delisted full back to the club sends a message that the coach/club doesnt think the players are good enough

You know, I could almost deal with Pagan as the coach if he showed some bloody faith in our players - and by faith I mean REAL faith rather than the lipservice we are occassionally given.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Danny
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:34 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 7:40 pm
Posts: 7497
Dont give up Danny.There is a hell of a lot of us around here who love your stuff,even if your poetry is a bit corny at times.
Its you hardcore guys like yourself,Synbad,Tyrants and a whole host of others that make this compulsory reading,so stick around. Got It !!!!!

_________________
All my dangerous friends


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:51 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Denis has done a wonderful job developing players into AFL players.

Kudos.

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:54 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Just on Denis...

Who should Denis delist at the end of the season???

Can anyone give me what they consider is a definitive list???

Who just simply isnt up to it???

Name em...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 7:57 pm 
Offline
Bert Deacon
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:36 pm
Posts: 557
Location: In the coach's box
Synbad wrote:
Denis has done a wonderful job developing players into AFL players.

Kudos.


When are out recruiting staff going to become accountable. Why do these posts always turn into a For Pagan v. Against Pagan.

For the record I'm not convinced Pagan is the man for the job right now, but let's not fool ourselves. Historically the majority of our draft picks and retreads have been sub-standard - that's not just the fault of the coaching staff. Our recruitment dept has underperformed - there's only one answer for this IMHO.

_________________
17 4 10


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:00 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
barass wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Denis has done a wonderful job developing players into AFL players.

Kudos.


When are out recruiting staff going to become accountable. Why do these posts always turn into a For Pagan v. Against Pagan.

For the record I'm not convinced Pagan is the man for the job right now, but let's not fool ourselves. Historically the majority of our draft picks and retreads have been sub-standard - that's not just the fault of the coaching staff. Our recruitment dept has underperformed - there's only one answer for this IMHO.

I asked a question... did you answer it???

No of course you didnt answer it.. you just looked at the obvious....which unfortunately alot of people do.. do.. because theyre not trained to think laterally..

They dont have to when theyre doing the usual tasks about the house...



Im asking again.. which players should be delisted at the end of this year...????

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:05 pm 
Offline
Bert Deacon
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 07, 2006 7:36 pm
Posts: 557
Location: In the coach's box
For the record didn't see your post until after i had done mine.

I think delistings have been covered in many threads. Why do you have a love affair with the recruiting dept Synbad?

On thinking laterally, your post gave us the answer on whether you can or not.

I'll get back to the vacuuming now ...

_________________
17 4 10


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:08 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 5274
Location: Melbourne
I'm worried Carrazzo and Simpson will end up going the way of Wiggins and Sporn. These 2 were shining lights at the end of last year and I don't think these defensive roles will do them any good.

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:09 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
And dont forget your Muzak in the background....


anyone else wanna try and guess who should be delisted at end of year???

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:09 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21660
Location: North of the border
Synbad wrote:
Just on Denis...

Who should Denis delist at the end of the season???

Can anyone give me what they consider is a definitive list???

Who just simply isnt up to it???

Name em...


Himself - Its obvious he no longer wants the job

no one can be that bad , fat little frickle faced 13 year olds sitting in front of a computor can tell you whats wrong with the club yet a coaching staff being paid over 2 million a year cant see it.

I fail to believe it

He wants the Golden Handshake

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:11 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Come on i want a list of the players that wont make it!!!...

Have a go.. it couldnt be that hard....

Name names....

I know its been done to death but come on.. once more..

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:13 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 5274
Location: Melbourne
Livingston
Deluca
Chambers
Longmuir
Wiggins
Sporn
Prendergast

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:16 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:44 am
Posts: 3136
Synbad wrote:
And dont forget your Muzak in the background....


anyone else wanna try and guess who should be delisted at end of year???


What are you parameters? - if things remain as they are? for team structure? personal preferences?

You cant just say I'll delist player X and Y without knowing parameters - ie personally I think prendergast is good enough, would play him in the 1sts for the rest of the year and retain him. However given precedent with fringe players and the lack of opportunity prendergast has been given earlier in the season (in spite of form) then chances are he will be delisted


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:19 pm 
Offline
Bruce Doull
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.
Who should not be at Carlton next year for one reason or another.. delistings.. retirements.. trades.. etc...

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:21 pm 
Offline
Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21660
Location: North of the border
Who will most likely go

Davies
Longmuir
Chambers
Bryan
Livo

Kouta to retire


4 early picks , 1PSD - late pick for another dud


Who should go

Pagan
Daniher
Dempsey
Elshaugh
Libba
Bannister
Prendgast
Saddington
Davies
O'Halphin
Sporn
Longmuir
Chambers

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws


Last edited by Sydney Blue on Fri Jun 02, 2006 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 80 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 48 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group