The Dan Murphy sponsorship we got with soem very strong Mathieson influence.
Im sure if you had picked up Deledio and Tambling as well as a good player through the PSD the club could have made just as much of a positive spin IF NOT MORE.. than winning the Wizzer for memberships.

Look at the end of the day.. nothing beats FANTASTIC PLAYERS ON YOUR LIST... NOTHING!!!!!... certainly not shit players...

We need to add to Walker and Waite and Betts and Co..
Othe teams REJECTS wont do it .
Wanna improve???

You take the medicine....

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I would have loved to have had Deledio and Tambling, and it does seem that the 2005 draft wont be as good as the 2004 one.

However we will get the best of the 2005 crop and probably a good uncontracted player. If we add our developing youngsters as well as maybe one or two good later picks, we might end up with a reasonable team.

However, I think that because of the long term effects of 'footy socialism', the comp is evening up a lot more, which may well mean that other elements such as luck with injuries and the draw have bigger influences on the fate of a club during the year. I mean, the weather and the home ground advantage is nowhere near the match turning factors that they used to be during the season.

Once we catch up in terms of indicators such as the number of top 30 picks running around in our team on any given week, things will improve a lot for us, but the road to success might not be as long as we may think at the moment because of the way that football talent is shared around the 16 clubs now due to the draft. This will be a factor that will help us a great deal.

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My Blue Heaven

The thing I FIND AMAZING, is that when the weagles made the final of the wisser cup , they didn't want to win it. I just cannot see the logic? If our players & supporters continue listening to the media, we will never win another cup. Our players are guilty of lack of heart, not ability, because they did listen to the media. Give me a champion team over a team of champions anyday. And screw Lyon, Sheahan,WALLS, and the like. The more they keep putting us down the more the players loose confidence and self esteem. And I dont give a rats arse how many games of afl they have played, or watched on, its opinion; as agassi said , anybody & everybody can have one, so you dont have to be Einstien to figure the media in general with the exception of Walls , Tim Lane & Sos. does not want Carlton to be successful.
Funnily, the Weagles are on top of the ladder, they won their first six or seven games if I recall. I suppose they just had a bad night! But I would have thought that they have been the form side in the competition. Regardless of how bad we supposedly are, the mindset is just so important. Pagan has said it often enough that the game is played above the shoulders.
I wonder just how far our confidence has been eroded after this weekend, from the start of the season?

No Synbad, what gets supporters and sponsors excited is winning not picking up draft picks. In order to entrench success longterm you need to address all areas of need, not just rely on draft picks exclusivly ( which history suggests is fraught with risk). It is called a wholistic approach rather than a selective approach.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Spot on as usual Mark. I wonder how many of those saying last year was a bad thing were jumping up and down with excitement after Fev kicked that goal in Adelaide? I for one wasn't sitting in front of my computer watching the stats tick over -- I was at a pub drinking beer with close to 100 other people, and the roar was deafening when the ball went through, and then about 30 of us were singing the song and slapping each other on the back once the siren went. And largely we were all complete strangers. And an Adlaide supporter just about destroyed a chait.

The other thing is, all this talk about 10 meant we couldn't get Deledio and Tambling. If we had finished last, and throughout the year Richmond and Hawthorn beat us (as the Bulldogs did anyway) Richmond and Hawthorn would've still only had 5 wins each and a priority pick, meaning we would've had picks 1 and 5. All big ifs.

If If If.

The Wiz cup was interesting in that usually only half the sides take it seriously, but over the last ten years or so almost every side that has played in the Wiz gf has made the real finals. I think the only exception is the Tiges, and this year one of the finalists is going to be top and the other bottom. I guess I've never really rated the Wiz but it has usually been a good guide to who is going to perform in the real stuff. Given that, it is hard to know how we could have been so abysmal this year. Our list is ordinary, but I'm sure most of us would have rated the Blues ahead of 6 or 7 teams at the start of the season.

It will be great to draft some young talent into the club, but it's not going to change us overnight. Most draftees are going to take several years to be real contributors, so there is no quick fix. I'm not sure that 2 18 year olds will make much immediate difference to the rabble that is Carlton.

I still ask the question. Are the eagles that bad? Since Carlton is one of very few teams this year to beat them. Regardless of how serious your team takes the fizzer cup, when you make the final you bloody well want to win it. The fact that they came back from four goals down to head us in the last quarter would indicate that were trying, and i am sure worsfold did not send the runner out when they hit the front and say whoa boys "don't take it serious". They then went on to win their next six or seven games. No other team has done that this year, so I would have thought they are a fair team, so really, there is more to it than just lack of so called talent. We need a Psychiatrist at the club to fix our boys BIG time. Give them back self belief and unite them as a unit. allow the younger players to feel wanted. Thats what we need now , the drafting of new talent at the end of the year will benifit the group as a whole only if the mindset is right.

Agree 100%

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Thank You.

Agree and I've been saying it for ages!

There is more to Carlton's problems than a lack of talent. I'll argue with anyone that we are not a great side but we are not this bad and the problem runs deeper than a perceived lack of talent. I think a lot of the problems afflicting us are more intangible than a simple lack of ability. Our confidence looks completely shot, there is no intensity out on the ground, there is no desperation in our play, there is little encouragement from one player to another, all of these things in my opinion override a lack of talent as a factor in our struggles.

People play down the Wizard Cup. But in that final there were two sides who, whatever rubbish might be spewed to the contrary, wanted to win that match. We not only won but at times we actually made WCE look pretty average. We saw off a real challenge from WCE in the last quarter. They wanted to win that game as much as we did. They had more or less as good a side as the one we'll face on Saturday. They'd smashed North by 80 points the week before. Their confidence was up.

Look at how we played then and how we're playing now. It's chalk and cheese. We were playing with freedom and confidence, now we look restricted, within ourselve and lacking belief. The same Carlton players are running out onto the ground as those in the Wizard Cup. The same "untalented" players helped us beat a side that has only lost one other time this season. It doesn't make sense to purely dismiss our problems as a "lack of talent" when there just has to be more to it than that.

How can you go from beating WCE by 5 goals to bottom of the ladder half way into a season? Maybe the Wizard Cup created unrealistic expectations in all of us. I personally felt after the Wizard Cup that we'd finish in the 7-10 range, either just in the 8 or just out. I wouldn't have been surprised if we finished with the same number of wins as we had last season, but just with a few less thrashings along the way. But a fall to outright last on the ladder after the Wizard Cup? Think about it, it doesn't make sense!

Our problems are psychological. The mindset appears to be a defeatist one. The players don't seem like they think they can genuinely win the game. I like Pagan and believe he is the right coach for us, no doubt about that. But even he for mine is too negative sometimes, some things he says can't be good for the players. For the millionth time, we lack the talent to compete with the better sides. Our list is average. I said it again. But the list is not this bad and I am 100% convinced that we should be doing better than we are and would be if the attitude and belief and confidence levels were closer to where they should be.

I can't believe how many people are so willing to dismiss us simply as "lacking talent" and just stopping there. How can you not see that the problems are deeper than that? As if 2 or 3 draft picks will propel us up the ladder. Bullshit they will. There is something not right at Carlton, beyond a lack of ability across the playing group. You don't need a very good list to be doing better than we are at the moment. Look how many upsets there have been this season. This says that on any given day the team that really wants to win the game will generally win it. We don't have that will to win. Collingwood won three games in a row for heaven's sake and they're no better than we are.

Somehow the mindset at Carlton needs to be changed. We need to get some confidence back into the players. Maybe show them the Wizard Cup Final again. Maybe more positive reinforcement. I'm not a psychologist but there has to be something that can be done. We need to somehow win a game of footy from somewhere. But to do this we actually have to show that we desperately want to win one. Even an honourable loss to a side like WCE might give us something. We just need something to happen to us from somewhere, some of these shackles need to be released.

We are not this bad a side.

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

No we are not, but we are not that much better either. And some new talent WILL help, along with a boost of confidence mixed in with some sheer dumb luck.

Five point five...........

and underrrrrrr................woohoo.........!


kindest regards tommi

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that'siti'mnotchangingthistagain......!

Oh gee, thanks for that stroke of genuis Professor Kransky!

How you have ever earnt any credibility around here completely astounds me. Whatever tripe (maybe it should be called lucerne or grass) you serve up on here, the sheep just swallow it as profoundly 100% right and never question it.

For the record, to actually win games, you need some quality players. The best way to get some quality players is to have some low numbered draft picks. A priority drat pick would give the club a free hit at whoever is considered to be the best junior player in the country.

Well well well, imagine if we were able to get into that situation and landed oursleves the next Nick Riewoldt and Jonathon Brown. Do you think we would win some games then? Do you think the supporters and sponsors would be significantly more excited about our prospects once these gun players were on our list?

If you say 'no' to that then you are just confirming what I have known for some time, you are a football dunce who still lives in the John Elliott era.

Do you propose we should win another 6 games now and provide some 'joy' and miss out on more draft picks??

No wonder cooking the snags at training is what you are ideally suited to because you have no concept whatsover about cooking up a decent plan for the future.

Take off the blinkers, go and beat yourself around the head with a wet fish. Wake up clown, we need good players to win games, not recycled lemons thrown out in a fire sale from their old clubs.

The system is the system, they used it to bring us down, we need to use it to our full advantage in order to get back onto the long term winning list. Exploit the system before they change it again. Take the losses on the chin and pick-up the gun players for next season. Until shortsighted clowns like you can fully adjust to footy in the new millenium, we will remain a laughing stock hing stock at the bottom of the heap for a lot longer than is necessary. Fair dinkum, will the penny ever drop with some people.

Your in Football Excellence
I Am & Always Will Be
Carlton God
The One, The Only Authentic Football Oracle

We have to start thinking and playing like a team. Forget about all the abuse directed at individuals. Its our team play that is the problem. We have no belief in ourselves and no confidence at all. Lets turn that around. This includes the coaching staff and even the board.

We need to send 22 blokes in Carlton jumpers out on the ground with one mission. To play as a team and win the game at all costs.
We have to do all that is possible to not win the ooden spoon.

i agree

(I actually just wanted to post in a thread that the Shag had posted in)

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Love Cricket? Love me

Carlton God's Mum:
"Dinner's ready, God."

Carlton God:
"Bravo woman, I never would have guessed. I suppose that smell of cooking meat wafting from the kitchen was your burning hands because you were too stupid to wear oven-gloves."

Carlton God's Mum:
"It's your favourite, God: spaghetti bolognaise."

Carlton God:
"Well give that woman three Michelin hats and call her Paul Bocuse. Jesus Christ, you could train a monkey how to cook spag bol in five minutes with a few hand gestures and a series of flashcards. Idiot."

Carlton God's Mum:
"Would you like something to drink, God? Milk, juice, water?"

Carlton God:
"No, you imbecile. I want to dehydrate and die right here at the table."

Carlton God's Mum:
"Here, God. Have a nice glass of orange juice. No, not that one. This one."

Carlton God:
"Oh yes, you pedantic old fool. Like there's a difference between one glass of orange juice and...

Carlton God clutches his throat and slumps from his chair onto the ground. His mum puts the rat poison back under the sink where it belongs. End.

its an obvious thing all people want to win games no different to wanting to succeed and be the best at what you do wether it be being the best or playing the best football you can or being the best salesperson the principle remains.. but there is also a very good reason to access your stocks have a long term plan and work to taking a step back to eventually go two steps forward. This is something i believe the blues are now doing. We have accessed our list our current stocks, the current potential the team has at its worst or best... also what depth we have. Well depth we have very little as has been seen when we have had injuries and suspensions in the season main. The strongest playing team we put on the field was in the wizzer cup since the season has started its been patch work and playing players who should be forward .. playing back or covering wrong opponents because we dont have the depth to cover missing players.

SO if we assume that the Blues hierachy have come to the conclusion on the list and that we have to go a step back then they are prob working on trying to work who will be on the list in 2006. The good part is that we will see much needed changes and hopefully chop off some double ups who just havnt grabbed the second chance.. ..... The fall out from this is that we will prob loose more than we win while accessing the list. But the positive is that at years end we will keep those who will hopefully be refreshed for a new year.. have 6-10 new kids from 2005 draft and developing players (Bullants 2004 draft picks) and this should hopefully give us those 2 steps we need to go one step forward again

Anyway the only people who will know the true situation is the coach and board.

hahahaha good fun post JohnM can almost picture that at the dinner table lol

Does anyone else picture CG as Stewie there?

Dunno how the club has a heap of talent... it might be better then what its showing.. but no shit club is ever as shit as it looks .
The problem is we have won 19 games from 79 starts..
We have no leaders.
We have few champion footballers.
We have a few overpaid players that have not performed in years.
Whether Lance Campo and Kouta can or cannot play a "crash bang style" or not.. so we cannot expect them to perform so now.. is irrelevant.
None are frontline footballers.. yet they have been paid as frontliners for the last 79 games... probably the worst 79 games in the clubs 100 year old plus history.
Lets not kid ourselves till we can have a winning record we ARE SHIT!!!!!!!!!

The quicker we can inject some class footballers alongside the Walkers Waites Betts T Birds the sooner we will go to being a worthy side to contest a competition devoid of any real good sides .
There are no standout teams in the AFL at the moment.. except us!!!

Were the standout shit side!!!!

No ifs.. no buts....!!!

and 2005.. why dont Liverpool keep the players they have next year instead of targetting new players in the transfer market???..(akin to our draft- thats where you get the better new blood talent)
Why dont they just keep the same players and develop those???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.