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 Post subject: Re: Robbo and wallsy
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:05 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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frank dardew wrote:
ROBBO not great analytical mind and one for glib lines and Wallsy not really consistent with analysis and too ready to blame elliot for everything without looking at all the factors
Agree with everyone that previous drafting and trading 1997 - 2001 has been poor and in part is costing us but to say that losing the early picks which we could have effectively got goddard wells and mclean plus others is absolute crap -yes we wouldnt be world beaters but a hell of a lot better than now - add wells and mclean to our midfield as well as perhaps goddard or have him playing on the hbf the side and future looks immeasurably better
yes we cheated and deserved to be punished but penalties way too harsh and just indicated the afl payback to elliott - but they ended up penalising us -rather than elliott - They effectively tried to murder us and for that we should always hate them


Agreed Frank.

However, even though Jack was gone before the penalties were handed down, well, at least officially, everyone knew what was coming, except for the fine. So, in some ways the AFL got their man ans Jack was painted as the architect of our rorting and by the AFL effectively making it public what our penalties would be, before we were even officially charged, Elliott was then put in an untenable position and had to go.

So my theory is that the AFL got what they wanted, they got their man, and once their position was so publicly known they felt they could not go back and penalise us less than what everyone was expecting. Although this still doesn't explain where the fine came from, that figure could have been muc, much lower as most of the facts, I mean speculation, centred around the draft penalties.

Oh well. it's history now and we just have to make do and get on with it. The discussion on Pagan draft strategy in his first two years is old news now, let's embrace the future and look forward the renewed spirit and success.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:36 pm 
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Trevor Keogh
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Elwood Blues1 wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
What is often overlooked as a major concern because of the draconian draft penalties is the relative lack of progress from the players that have been at the club for between 3-5 seasons. Wells, Goddard and someone like McLean would definitely help us and we'd definitely be a better side with them in the current side, and they'd give us more hope for the future.

But just as important a problem and possibly more significant in my book is the following. Luke Livingston, pick 4. Trent Sporn, pick 11. Simon Wiggins, pick 15. Murray Vance, pick 6. Kris Massie, pick 7. These five players all went in the top 15 in the draft in the late 90s-2000. The return the club has got from them on the whole has been one well short of what might have been expected from such a selection of picks. There have been varying reasons for this, Sporn and Livo have had injury troubles, Murray Vance struggled with life in the city, Massie broke his leg etc. Another important reason is that these players, especially Sporn, Livo and Wiggins, i.e. the 2000 draftees, have played their whole careers in a 'losing' environment, and also an environment that saw several club champions leave within a short space of time. They have played and are still playing in a side with a manifest lack of leadership. There is no Michael Voss, Nathan Buckley at Carlton. And who knows, throw them into the Brisbane side of the past few years, and they might have looked like pretty decent players.

The problem is that 4/5 selections (not Vance, who we never really saw) have not vindicated the decision of the recruiting department and whoever else to take them so early in the draft. In other words, we have not seen the progress we might reasonably have expected from picks 4, 7, 11 and 15 in the draft. And this is what's hurting us as much as anything. These blokes should be established AFL players who will play 150+ games of footy. Yet we're just hoping that they even make it as 'good ordinary' players. Wiggins and Sporn have been VFL regulars. Livo is ok and has improved but nothing to write home about.

As I've said there are mitigating factors that can be argued. But these players have to be doing more than they are. This is a big reason why we are where we are. The draft picks that we missed out on hurt but the players already at the club haven't come on as might have been expected.


Correct..for all our early picks we didnt get any real impact players and this group should have provided us with some quality core regulars.....


Couldn't agree with you more!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:24 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Yes you can bitch about the five players that havent come through as much as you like.. but...
whatabout the picks we traded off for Davenport, McKernan,Murphy,Mansfield and Oreilly???
then you have to add PP,#1,second round and third round... then the first two PS draft picks of that year....
then we got Walker but lost the first rounder (would have been Kepler Braddley) plus second rounder...
Then add the oversized contracts and the lack of support culturally the players from this club have given Pagan and you come to the club being fupped from all sides.From within with bad management and recruiting as well as the AFL.
We cant blame the AFL for our predicament. Its self inflicted.

We have to become smarter and forget about band aid solutions.
We arent coming back in the very near future. It will take us a few years.

Lets be patient and do this properly.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:58 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Don't worry Synbad...

from all reports the Club realises it is a longer term project than pick 9 last year and maybe pick 1 (and 2 or 3) this year.

It is the fans who have to be patient and trust that we can pick players who can then be developed by the footy club. It is not an exact science, but very exciting!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:18 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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I know it will take time and I have patience in abundance, but I will never stop hating Demetrispew, Evans, Jackson, Samuel, Kelty Wood et al, these vindictive, hypocritical, lying turds tried to destroy our club, I will never forgive I will never forget.

As long as this forum exists I will use it to vent my spleen on these spineless pricks.

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:52 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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I seeeeee.........!


kindest regards tommi

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 Post subject: Robbo
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:43 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Robbo spot on the money for mine.But Robert Walls ? Robbie is a former great champion of our club and i have huge respect for him in that regard,but as far as a commentator,he has become Captain Obvious.Hey Robbie,tell us something we dont know.

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