So the ball wasn't within 5 metres?? What's the free....looking at a player and stepping into space isn't against a rules....I thought that was a FUNDAMETAL of the game.

So that would nmean that defender cannot cut off the lead of a forwrd by running across in front of him UNLESS he's not looking, never has looked, doesn't intend to look at him or even isn't sure what he looks like... Does it count if he has a picture of the player in his wallet???

Give me a F&%$#en break! Shepherding is when you stop a player going for the ball so your team mate can get it, or a free run at it.
The only exception is in the ruck when you intentionaly block the ruckman.

If what Lance does...holding ground like a plum or stepping back or dropping pants and flashing a brown eye (and thus looks at his opponent) it's not shepherding...

If there ius such a rule...then does running behind the ball and watching it go out of bounds constitute a shepherd? Cutting off a lead constitutes a shepherd? Pushing side on in marking contest....sorry I forgot, you can do these so long as you don't know where the opposition player is??

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“Every single element of the Club has to be the best in the league, meticulously and methodically, and only by doing this will we be elite and challenge for number 17.”
Greg Lee

Tredrea jumped into Lance's back and the ball cleared him by several feet. Lance was backing back to where the ball was going to be. I have no idea what Tredrea was doing.
Lance initiates contact a lot of the time, but as long as he's looking at and playing the ball when it arrives I don't see why being aware of your opponent is not allowed.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

slowly for you then

He can back back, but not looking at the player as he does so - thats like the blokes running with the flight - no contact allowed because it is deemed no legitimate attempt is being made - see, is Lance making a real attempt to mark the ball? No. Does he disguise it? No. And therein lies the problem, all the swearing in the world won't change the fact that Lance needs to work this out because everyone else has!

Lance is not allowed to look for the player behind and back into the space to stop that player from marking the ball. He is allowed to go for the mark. And players cannot run across (with their pants down, you angry boy you) a leading player unless THEY MAKE IT LOOK LEGITIMATE.

This is where Lance falls down. No one is saying stop doing it Lance, rather, do it better. Gather the information quickly, return eyes to flight of the ball and then do it (with arms up to go for the ball!!!!!!!).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I dont think you are allowed to impede someones run at the ball though. However Lance wasnt doing that, he just looked a bit to long at the man coming at him.Another Bullshit decisioon. It was probably McLaren.

DB, I agree that Lance does get caught out because he's too obviously intending to initiate contact, but the one in question was different because Tredrea was way under the ball when he jumped on Lance's back. He was up early and in no position to make contact with the ball. The fact that Lance looked at him shouldn't come into it in that instance IMO.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

In 2001 late season carlton vs Collingwood game where we trashed them, an umpire was heard on TV to clearly say "good screen" when a Collingwood player shepherded SOS, I believe it was, from Tarrant and some Blues objected.

Gieschen has deemed that almost every player except Lance is able to position his body in such a way that maximises his opportunity to take the mark. The reason Lance is penalised is because he glances at the player before looking back to the ball.

I agree that since all players, including Lance, have seen the video, then Lance needs to change his approach as he has at times been penalised for this behaviour over the last 4 eseasons.

However, this does not mean that Gieschen's instructions are correct. He is penalising a player for having the abillity to find out where his opponent is before contact takes place and position himself to take advantage of this knowledge so that he can make his own play at the ball. What Gieschen is saying is that in this particular instance, you are not allowed to take advnatage of your ability to read the ball and opponent and position yourself accordingly.

Gieschen is wrong.

sorry i think you've got it wrong, the point is i do not belive lance is making a play for the ball. he is in fact conceding he cannot mark the ball and therefore he backs into his opponent to stop them. No different from a bloke who just jumps into the back of an opponent to stop him marking without ever making an attempt to mark.

Again i say watch lance's hands/arms. they are in no position to mark the ball, in fact they are spead out to 'capture' the opponent. its a poor technique .

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I use the phrase ' flapping'. When Lance flaps, the ump goes nuts. I was watching the ump at the time and I think he was about to pay in the back to lance, before remembering the pre-season manifesto and paying it against him.

Rightly or wrongly posters, everyone out there who's watched Carlton this year knows Lance does it and the umpire will penalise it. Without a directive from AFL House, Lance will continue to be penalised. Live with it... and in Lance's case, Live WITHOUT it.

Totally agree dannyboy!
I can't believe anyone who has played the game doesn't think this is correct umpiring? Because if you don't you endorse every defender turning their back on play looking at the forward and when the ball is within 5 metres make a spoiling attempt and its legit. What a fantastic game it would become.

I've been saying this all along, his action is illegal, and rightly so. It's not smart, it's illegally taking another player out

I actually agree with that, but why is shepherding a ball through the goals any different. You're still impeding your opponent while not attempting to play the ball yourself, and usually said shepherding starts when the ball is well outside 5m.

BTW, anyone else see the one paid the opposite way on the weekend? Seems the rule only applies to Whitnall.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

mentioned that one wojee and i do not know why - one of those things but i am sure the geish could explain it....

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

The Geisch couldn't explain why his arse points toward the ground, so I hold little hope.

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"One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people's minds." - Frank Zappa

oh no he could explain, just wpouldn't make sense is all.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

I agree with Dannyboy.

Lance has been doing this for years - when he thinks he has no chance of taking a mark he will often simply back into the player coming in from behind and appeal for in the back. He's been doing it to Dustin Fletcher since Moses was a boy.

Up until about 2 years ago it suckered them every time, but recently the umps have got wise to it.

Yet he persists in doing it.

Derek Humphrey-Smith, I think that's his name, was on SEN on Monday night and that free kick was deicussed. He said it was a good call by the ump. The other panelists said exactly what Tony Shaw said.

Maybe Lance is a bit too smart to be playing football.

I think most times players watch the ball when shepherding the ball thru for a goal (mainly to see if it actually will be a goal). But the ones who don't and shepherd facing an opponent will be called for a free kick. But I would agree the shepherd (for a goal) does start outside the 5 metres most of the time and is more like 25m.