Talking Carlton Index Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington Lochie O'Brien Kerryn Harrington CFC Home CFC Membership CFC Shop CFC Fixture Blueseum
It is currently Thu Jul 10, 2025 8:54 am

All times are UTC + 10 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:22 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1354
Blue Vain wrote:
Highest average possessions per game at Carlton this year.
Top 5 in kicks, handballs AND tackles.
Had 18 handballs against Adelaide (his career high)
8 tackles against Collingwood this year (another career high)
4 goals against Richmond this year (another career high)
12 inside 50 against Collingwood this year (another career high)
17 rebound 50s against Port this year (another career high)

As a matter of fact, since Stevens has been at Carlton, he has had career high stats in kicks, handballs, tackles, goals, frees for, contested possessions, clearances, inside 50s, rebound 50s, long kicks and bounces.

Runner up in the John Nicholls medal in 2004 besides missing the first 2 games with suspension.
Top 3 in Ports B&F twice, Michael Tuck medallist.
Top 10 in the AFL for centre bounce clearances.


If he's not one of our A graders, care to tell us who they are?


Great work BV.

Scottopee would be advised to read your post...

Stevens is our ONLY A grade player in my opinion.....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:41 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1354
scottopee wrote:

Here we go again

Sorry Ammo totally dissagree. Stevens big bad tagging group this year include Hodge Bell Coughlan twice Crawford Goodwin Carr Cross which is hardly an intimadating group of tagers. Then the run with group (who still try and get the footy) Peverill Lucuria Ling and then the tagging group of McDonald Baker Stenglein Ablett KCornes and the that big nasty TSelwood! Out of the taggers he would have only beaten McDonald when getting 10? disposals in Pagan called "junk time" after we came good in the last 1/4 against Melbourne is that really a win? He has been embarrased twice by Kane Cornes who I don't think holds at all when tagging. What Cornes does is stands infront opponent gets the footy first gives it off then gets back to his opponent he is the best at this going around the AFL. Stevens has let 9 opponents rack up 25 disposals or more in a game including Hodge with 34 Coughlan 38 Carr 32 Licuria 35 and my guess is 16 out of his 19 opponents would have been in the oppositions best players. In 10 games this year his opponent has had more of the ball if they were all taggers why are they getting more of it? Personally I would say Stevens has only really easily beaten 1 opponent this year and that was 2 weeks ago against Coughlan otherwise he has broken even or been easily beaten. Seems to me clubs either tag Stevens and they know he struggles or they go head to head because they know who plays on him will have a good game. For the last 10 weeks the excuse has been he must be injured or he was sick then he played 2 good games and then everyone says he looks fine now and then after another bad game the excuses start up for him again.

Look Stevens is a very good player and we need him up and firing but at the end of the day I don't think he is the A Grade player everyone thinks we were getting or think we have got. To me he is a very good 3rd midfielder at a club not the no.1 who really should play on a wing because of the way he plays and I've coverd that before. For a so called A grade player he has never made an All Australian team and won't again this year while being in his prime. When will the excuses stop for him because everyone else in this side has been smashed on here?


Scottopee you raise interesting points in regards to Stevens opponents this year.

Care to analyse those games further and assess the role Stevo had to play in those games?

The points I wish to make are

1. That during this season Stevo has lacked the necessary support to play the game he is most suited too. This means that he has had to cover for the in general unaccountable qualites of our more experienced midfielders and I am sure we all know who they are.

2. Stevo has also been placed in unfamilar roles in the backline in order to "tighten" up or close "holes" in our defense and then create run from the backline. I know some midfields have this as a specific role, but in general I thought it was more part of what your centre half back & specific back pocket players were responsible for.

3. No offence to Bryan as I think he has a future, but lets face it He isnt the worlds greatest ruckman, and has a habit of not tapping to advantage of the ball winners (ie Stevens). If you dont get the ball to your advantage its pretty hard to have consistent impact on the game, especially if you are a midfielder.

4. Also worth noting here that Stevens is not an in and under midfielder, or at least that role is not familiar to him. He has been given assignments where he has been required to be in & under, but thats not his natural game.

5. Have a long hard look at the Richmond game and you will see exaclty how damaging stevens is and can be given the other pieces of the puzzle fall into place eg support from the other midfielders, use of the ball by the ruck etc etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:50 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:00 pm
Posts: 2550
Location: Safe distance away
keogh wrote:
I acknowledge the fact that the umps dont pick up the unfair tactics In the end if Stevens cant get help then take matters into your own hands Greg Williiams style.


And Nick Stevens not playing at all through suspension helps us how ?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:01 pm 
Offline
Stephen Silvagni
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:27 am
Posts: 28528
Location: Free Beer!!
I find it funny coaches complaining about treatment of on-baller's considering every club has their own.

Anytime West Coast complain about treatment to Judd is doubly funny and someone should mention the names Dwayne Lamb, Dean Kemp, Craig Turley, Don Pyke etc to them.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:49 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6460
Hey beantown



Stevens needs to start throwing his weight around.That will stop the tagging.He might as well because he was pretty useless last week.Needs to do something


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 3:51 pm 
Offline
John Nicholls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:10 pm
Posts: 9404
Location: Back 50 of the Tiger Den
keogh wrote:
Hey beantown



Stevens needs to start throwing his weight around.That will stop the tagging.He might as well because he was pretty useless last week.Needs to do something


And yet everyone loved his performance against Richmond.

Some people are just fickle sometimes.

_________________
Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:19 pm 
Offline
Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
Posts: 2123
Let me start off by saying that Stevens is a gun and I am rapt we have him. But I still think scottopee has a point. How many players has he convincingly beaten this season? I don't reckon the number would be all that high. Now I know that he had that 6 week period where he was apparently still feeling the effects of the flu and possibly has been playing with other injuries. I acknowledge the sometimes "rough-house" tactics used on Nick by taggers. But I also think Nick has played a lot of games in which his opponent has either beaten him on the day or at least broke even with him, and when you consider that most weeks he's been tagged, his opponent has done his job if the contest was relatively even.

I think that Nick is an A-Grade player and I certainly wouldn't trade him. But personally whilst he's been all right, I wouldn't say he's had all that great a season this year.

_________________
Formerly Blues-Back2003.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 6:42 pm 
Offline
Craig Bradley

Joined: Thu Mar 31, 2005 9:00 am
Posts: 6154
What would people say if we beat the Pies on Saturday and come the end of the year both clubs qualify for a priority pick resulting in this scenario...Collingwood offers its first round pick plus a Lonie or Rowe or Swan for Stevens?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:45 pm 
Offline
Trevor Keogh

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:20 pm
Posts: 789
Location: Melbourne
Scottopee,

Fair points all of them although I think you may find that Kane Cornes does hold and on the weekend was standing behind Stevens with his arms around him at the centre bounce. There were a couple of arms thrown back a bit of jumper punching and a bit of wrestling but the umpires chose to ignore it so it continued.

I think that Hodge played half back flank against us and certainly Baker Stenglein and Cornes would be amongst the best taggers in the competition. I think the MC and Dennis would like to have the straight match ups if we were winning on ball and out of the ruck but when we are getting trounced all he is doing all day is chasing butt and trying to plug holes.

He is not the answer to all our problems and not one of the hard tough inside midfielders that IMO we need to add to the team but he is certainly one of the best running midfielders in the competition. We need fast running midfielders as well as a couple of tough inside midfielders and numbers to rotate on ball.

When he has the support on ball I think we will have a very handy attacking player. He will get beaten sometimes as all players do but I think we expect him and Kouta to carry us over the line and they simply get outnumbered.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:46 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:02 am
Posts: 1724
Blue Vain wrote:
Highest average possessions per game at Carlton this year.
Top 5 in kicks, handballs AND tackles.
Had 18 handballs against Adelaide (his career high)
8 tackles against Collingwood this year (another career high)
4 goals against Richmond this year (another career high)
12 inside 50 against Collingwood this year (another career high)
17 rebound 50s against Port this year (another career high)

As a matter of fact, since Stevens has been at Carlton, he has had career high stats in kicks, handballs, tackles, goals, frees for, contested possessions, clearances, inside 50s, rebound 50s, long kicks and bounces.

Runner up in the John Nicholls medal in 2004 besides missing the first 2 games with suspension.
Top 3 in Ports B&F twice, Michael Tuck medallist.
Top 10 in the AFL for centre bounce clearances.


If he's not one of our A graders, care to tell us who they are?


Since when is a career high = to an A grade player.

Like I said he is a VERY GOOD PLAYER but I don't think he is an A grader that is a top 40 or 50 player in the AFL!
All great stats (except the 17 rebound 50's against Port when he has had 18 and 10 disposals in those 2 games?) yes he might have some career highs this year but match them with other A graders career highs or B&F or All Australian or Brownlows. He might be in the top 5 at the club but if he were A grade he would be top 1! Our side is the worst performed in the league our midfield one of the worst he has very little competition and he is just top 5? Its great having career high's but has he had career BEST seasons? I might be wrong but I thought I remember you or it was someone saying who ever wins the B&F this year it will be meaningless (pesonally I don't think that is right) and I don't think he will win. Why isn't he contention for All Australian for 2 years in a row considering they pick 10 onballers every year and a list of 50 names that are in contention and his name is not anywhere?
The question is are all the stats and the way he plays that of an A grader or a very good player?
Or why is he easily tagged out of games?
Or is he a flat track bully against the average sides?

As for who is an A grader well probably nobody Kouta and Fev can play A grade games but Kouta is coming to the end and Fev like Stevens rely on other players to help them play better. Fev is A grade for Full forwards but not A grade for the AFL.
Waite and Walker should make A grade level in the coming seasons and hopefully a few more young ones to follow.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:50 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:02 am
Posts: 1724
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
Blue Vain wrote:
Highest average possessions per game at Carlton this year.
Top 5 in kicks, handballs AND tackles.
Had 18 handballs against Adelaide (his career high)
8 tackles against Collingwood this year (another career high)
4 goals against Richmond this year (another career high)
12 inside 50 against Collingwood this year (another career high)
17 rebound 50s against Port this year (another career high)

As a matter of fact, since Stevens has been at Carlton, he has had career high stats in kicks, handballs, tackles, goals, frees for, contested possessions, clearances, inside 50s, rebound 50s, long kicks and bounces.

Runner up in the John Nicholls medal in 2004 besides missing the first 2 games with suspension.
Top 3 in Ports B&F twice, Michael Tuck medallist.
Top 10 in the AFL for centre bounce clearances.


If he's not one of our A graders, care to tell us who they are?


Great work BV.

Scottopee would be advised to read your post...

Stevens is our ONLY A grade player in my opinion.....


I would advise you to watch the game but thats just my opionion.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:32 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1354
scotto I do watch the games....

No point getting nasty, I was just pointing out that his return to the club this year (as BV stats show) has been of 'A" grade material. I agree that he isn't A Grade material 100% of time but name me one midfielder who is?

If you look at my previous post on this topic, you will also see that I have raised some thoughts of my own as to why I think Stevos output has been limited at times.

Do you not agree that Stevo has had to cover for other unaccountable players? - This would give some light on why he supposedly breaks even in most games with opponents. He has been at times doing the job of ttwo or more players!

Do you not agree that he has not had great support from our other 'experienced' midfielders?

Do you not agree that he has had to play out of his natural role, to cover holes in our defence?

As I said before when he has the support and can play his natural game, ala the game against richmond, you see the potentcy of Stevens. If that wasn't an A grade game from and A grade player, then I don't know what is....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:28 pm 
Offline
Geoff Southby
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:54 pm
Posts: 5274
Location: Melbourne
http://www.footywire.com/fw/web/ft_play ... 9&pid2=109

http://www.footywire.com/fw/web/ft_play ... le?pid=133

_________________
"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:55 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:02 am
Posts: 1724
BluesRockMyWorld wrote:
scotto I do watch the games....

No point getting nasty, I was just pointing out that his return to the club this year (as BV stats show) has been of 'A" grade material. I agree that he isn't A Grade material 100% of time but name me one midfielder who is?

If you look at my previous post on this topic, you will also see that I have raised some thoughts of my own as to why I think Stevos output has been limited at times.

Do you not agree that Stevo has had to cover for other unaccountable players? - This would give some light on why he supposedly breaks even in most games with opponents. He has been at times doing the job of ttwo or more players!

Do you not agree that he has not had great support from our other 'experienced' midfielders?

Do you not agree that he has had to play out of his natural role, to cover holes in our defence?

As I said before when he has the support and can play his natural game, ala the game against richmond, you see the potentcy of Stevens. If that wasn't an A grade game from and A grade player, then I don't know what is....


You tell me to do something and thats supposedly fine
I tell you to do something and its nasty

NO I DO NOT AGREE HE HAS TO COVER FOR OTHERS WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! Simply because he doesn't. He doesn't cover his own man without some bullshit excuse he has got to cover others. Watch him trail behind his opponent (non tagger) or run forward hoping we get first possesion. Maybe its the others that you say are unacountable actually have to cover Stevens man because Stevens does not and thats the reasons they are unacountable you can spin it anyway you like.

Yes I agree he hasn't had great support in the midfield but I also think he hasn't always given great support back.

No I do not agree he has to play out of his natural position in defence because he doesn't! He takes kick ins thats not playing in defence. I'd personally say by taking the kick ins he would get 5-10 cheap disposals a game getting handball receives in the backline. How many passes do you remember him hitting Fev on the chest this year? I'd say Houlihan would have double and he plays HB.

Yes all the stats for Stevens are great infact they compare very well with Campos and are averaging the same amount of possesions. So that must mean Campo is an A Grade player and I'm sure you and every great Campo supporter on here agree with that :roll:

A GRADERS get the job done without excuses they just do it! People like yourself continue to make excuses for Stevens that he needs this and that but hang shit on others for the exact same thing when maybe they also need this and that to play well. The great players do it themselves not rely on everything going right to be great! Do you understand?

ONCE AGAIN I think Stevens is a very GOOD PLAYER but not A GRADE ONCE AGAIN VERY GOOD not a hack not shit.

Will he be All Australian?
Will he win the B&F?
Will he be in the top 50 players list from any media people?

and is he and has he lived up to the player you thought we were getting without excuses?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 7:56 pm 
Offline
Harry Vallence
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:02 am
Posts: 1724
TheGame wrote:
http://www.footywire.com/fw/web/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=133&tid2=19&pid2=109

http://www.footywire.com/fw/web/ft_play ... le?pid=133


Maybe you could compare Stevens with Campo to get your answer :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:04 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1354
Quote:
NO I DO NOT AGREE HE HAS TO COVER FOR OTHERS WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! Simply because he doesn't. He doesn't cover his own man without some bullshit excuse he has got to cover others. Watch him trail behind his opponent (non tagger) or run forward hoping we get first possesion. Maybe its the others that you say are unacountable actually have to cover Stevens man because Stevens does not and thats the reasons they are unacountable you can spin it anyway you like.


And here you have spun it the way you like :roll:

Quote:
No I do not agree he has to play out of his natural position in defence because he doesn't! He takes kick ins thats not playing in defence. I'd personally say by taking the kick ins he would get 5-10 cheap disposals a game getting handball receives in the backline. How many passes do you remember him hitting Fev on the chest this year? I'd say Houlihan would have double and he plays HB.


So all stevens does is take kick ins now? And you think I don't watch the game!! :roll: Also, he has hit Fev plenty of times. Maybe not as much as Houla, but perhaps thats because unlike some Stevens can actually assess the options better than most. Most of the time fev is double or tripple teamed when the ball goes forward Stevens actually LOOKS for an appropriate option in these circumstances....

Quote:
A GRADERS get the job done without excuses they just do it! People like yourself continue to make excuses for Stevens that he needs this and that but hang shit on others for the exact same thing when maybe they also need this and that to play well. The great players do it themselves not rely on everything going right to be great! Do you understand?


This is your opinion, which I will agree to disagree with. My opinion is that they are not excuses, its Reality. Also, you have no right to suggest that I hang shit on other players for the same things. Thats rubbish...... and unsubstantiated

Quote:
Will he be All Australian?


Besides being a nice piece for your resume what does All Australian really prove? Is being All Australian an ingredient for being an A Grade player? I dont think so!!

Quote:
Will he win the B&F?


No he won't, IMO the B&F should be cancelled this year. No one player has stood out. That does not mean he isnt an A grade player though...

Quote:
Will he be in the top 50 players list from any media people


Oh OK so the Media know all? If you don't make their list, then you must be shit? Come on get a grip mate....

Quote:
and is he and has he lived up to the player you thought we were getting without excuses?


I am more than happy with getting Stevens. As I said he hasnt necessarily been perfect but who is? I think he is a shining light in what is at the end of the day a fairly ordinary list of players....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:43 am 
Offline
Ken Hunter
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg
apparently its in Stevo's contract that in the second year he help us to some early picks (there are bonuses involved) - its called the playing possum clause (just before the santy clause when we get the picks and order is restored).

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:17 am 
Offline
Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 1354
dannyboy wrote:
apparently its in Stevo's contract that in the second year he help us to some early picks (there are bonuses involved) - its called the playing possum clause (just before the santy clause when we get the picks and order is restored).


Good one DB :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:25 pm 
Offline
Wayne Johnston
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 8888
Location: 8888
The way i would class an A grade player is would he get a game in the West Coast, Adelaide, Brisbane or even Bulldogs midfield? Of course he would.

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 2:56 pm 
Offline
Robert Walls
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:50 am
Posts: 3193
Location: Whistler
amazonstud wrote:
Scottopee,

Fair points all of them although I think you may find that Kane Cornes does hold and on the weekend was standing behind Stevens with his arms around him at the centre bounce. There were a couple of arms thrown back a bit of jumper punching and a bit of wrestling but the umpires chose to ignore it so it continued.



Anyoe who says Kane Cornes does not hold on has not watched him very well.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 45 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC + 10 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 50 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group