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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 7760
Location: Bendigo
Kaptain Kouta wrote:
Locke wrote:
Quote:
Can someone translate this? Páirc Uí Chaoimh - Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin!!!


Tried google but it didnt work. What does it say. Things like this eat away at me till I know what it means.TELL ME.


Try Babelfish


What language is it? Gaelic? There's no option on Babelfish for that

Great! I was just starting to sleep normally after the cricket...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:26 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I know how the tankists think, if Denis is seen to be stupid enough to actually do his job and teach our kids how to win then people will point to Collo and say he will lead the club to the glories of tanking. So to prempt this argument i merely said I do not know with Collo because I actually have not heard him say anything on the subject.

sorry, it was mischevious I know, it sounded as if i thought he might be tanking ( and the tankists would then rub their hands together gleefully), but truthfully i do not know what goes on in anyone's head, i only know what i hgear them say and i haven't heard Collo on the subject.

Oh and the Tankists may be right by the way all i am saying is that ido not know, not knowing I listen to people who would know 9ie denis) and he tells me he isn't.

it is all i can do.

As to the merits or otherwise of all of this spin doctoring well, i think frogs can jump and rain can fall and droughts are horrible and maybe a divinging rod or a dance or a plea to the spirits of the air will break the drought but in the end i tend to think its just cycles working themselves out - cours eman comes along and stuffs those cycles up so none of us know what to think but hey, right now its drought so dance or plead or grab a forked stick - its all the same shit until the rains fall.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:07 pm 
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Ken Hands
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If you want to win 2 out of the next 3 games you are a selfish fool and don't have the clubs best interests at heart, its as simple as that. I'd go as far as saying you don't really care about Carlton.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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and you'd be right :lol: secretly I'm plotting its downfall and then I'll stand on the heap and scream its Mine! Mine! Mine! bwahhaaaa bwahhaaaa - oh hang on, that's your wet dream. Now there's a good little diety, run along and masturbate in some other thread will you CG.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am
Posts: 1971
Players go out and play to their best of their abilities and try to win. I haven't seen any evidence otherwise this year from any Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn player. Part one of puzzle.

Part two of puzzle. Team selection. I'll do this team by team.

Collingwood have had injuries and are doing their best to play to a structure with what they have to field a team, particular without key forwards. Tarrant is missing but he was playing injured and hasn't had much influence before he took his break, so him not playing out the season doesn't bother me.

Hawthorn in 2005 have played the system. They trade their key forward in Thompson and the coach says we would have won six more games with Thommo still at the Hawks in 2005. Their list is playing to win but the Hawks have manufactured their list knowing they won't get over the line most weeks without a key forward. Personally I'd get rid of Whitnall for a similar reason but it's not like Lance is winning us games, he's just helping us lose by less.

Carlton. Play the kids or play the bigger bodies? Pagan is doing what he's always done, trying to field a combatitive line up. If the kids can add something to this ethic they get a game ie. Simpson, Betts, Bentick, Carrazzo. And they've been given midfield roles and key forward roles (ie. Fisher, Waite) because the senior players haven't been pulling their weight, not because we're willing to lose games with them in central roles.

Part three of the puzzle. Team gameplan or tactics. This is where people could put some justifiable cases. Last week Pagan went man on man against Port Adelaide. Terry Wallace said he loved watching the Carlton Port clash, probably because it was a clash. All offensive but minimal defensive tactics. Except for when Port pushed all their big men into our forward fifty to stop our run on in the 2nd quarter.

Man on man is the way Pagan has always liked to coach but in modern day football when defending a forward fifty there is always part manning up and part blocking/filling of space. Last week our players followed their direct opponent at all costs and left huge clear spaces for any number of Power players to lead into. There wasn't any flooding. It was a very unusual tactic. It was quite possibly to instill responsibility into players to see who was upto it and who wasn't, that's fair enough but to my eyes it did seem a little naive if you were all about winning the game as a team.

The other point here was the complete lack of instruction for our players to man up on the defensive side of stopages and throw ins; leaving Port players with free paths towards goal if they won first possession. I really did find this part mystifying, that a coach could sit there and not instruct his players to fulfil such a fundamental of football. Port kicked five plus goals thru this oversight, Kouta deliberately stood on the defensive side once at a throw in during the last quarter. When you're near goal you block the defensive side to the goals blocking the path to the goals.

Pagan's man on man tactics can lead to some exciting play like we saw in the second quarter but really, five minutes into the first quarter I could see one on one our players were never going to outplay the Port line up, they have too many quality players. So on this ground I'd say Pagan's main priority was about judging the player's individual capabilities and teaching individual basic skills and applications over providing any alternative tactics which are harder for players to fulfil to maximise the potential of a win. Good teams play offensive football but are defensively and tactically drilled. Maybe our players aren't up to applying tactics as a team and win? Maybe for where we are at strict man on man is the best way Pagan has to win?. But Carlton footballers were playing some pretty naive defensive football on the weekend.

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Last edited by 79Vintage on Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:26 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:59 am
Posts: 1971
double post

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:31 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Location: afl.virtualsports.com.au
dannyboy wrote:

As to the merits or otherwise of all of this spin doctoring well, i think frogs can jump and rain can fall and droughts are horrible and maybe a divinging rod or a dance or a plea to the spirits of the air will break the drought but in the end i tend to think its just cycles working themselves out - cours eman comes along and stuffs those cycles up so none of us know what to think but hey, right now its drought so dance or plead or grab a forked stick - its all the same shit until the rains fall.


Interesting you say that DB........Melbourne's last really wet year was 1995. Melbourne has suffered dry years in 1997 (11th), 2002 (16th) and this year is currently heading towards a dry one (16th) :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:21 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I agree 79 that hawthorn played the system in two ways - one thompson trade and two go for the 2 talls - almost ensured they'd (finish near bottom again (2 more picks).

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:39 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Not bloody close enough to the action!!
Would you expect Pago Pago to say:

"We don't bat too deep, as you know we have the worst list in the comp, so therefore we will play as many retards as we can get away with. This will mean that by tanking, we will get beaten and get the prize priority pick as well as another low pick in November. Isn't that sensational? Geez I'm excited by this draft and I can't wait to have the bargaining power of the first pick in the PSD as well. The AFL recognize we are struggling and they want to assist us as much as possible, so they will turn a blind eye to our tactics. Andrew only said to me the other day, that they really feel sorry for us because the draft penalties of a couple of years ago were far too harsh, so he said to go ahead with our plans to play dead in the next three matches. In fact we had a bit of nudge, nudge, wink, wink about our plans for next years draft as well. He is a closet Blues fan you know, just loves us" 8) :roll: :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:03 am 
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Bruce Doull
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"Noone will ever know how much losing those picks has affected us"

The AFL may have stripped us off those picks Enis but if you @#$%&! these ones up...

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:31 am 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:52 am
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Vint79,

That space on the defensive side of ball ups and throw ins has been there ever since pagan got to carlton. My friends and i point it out each week. Costs us a couple of goals each week. I didnt see it in the wiz cup though strangely.

The man on man tactic was strange. No zone on the kick outs no players filling the gap in their 50. It was good to watch but probably not going to win a game in the end. Williams always goes on about Pagan tagging his whole midfield. Maybe Pagan was having a laugh and tagging his whole team.

I dont think he is tanking but when its close at the end of a game i think from the top down we dont go at it as we should coz we know handouts are coming our way if we dont.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:46 am 
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Bruce Comben

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2005 5:28 pm
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All I have been hearing from Denis all year is how much we need to inject talent, how much those draft penalties have hurt us........"give me draft picks and I'll give you attractive football", draft picks that, draft penalties this. After every shellacking we endured, this is what he fed us. The draft picks are there Denis, don't let them go this time!!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:52 am 
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formerly Fevola

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:57 pm
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I think he is being very selfish, saying he wants to protect his coaching record and doesnt like to win the spoon. Everyone at Carlton is so selfish. I cannot believe it.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:09 am 
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Horrie Clover

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:26 pm
Posts: 332
The frightening thing is that Dennis believes it - he actually wants 3 more wins. He is not just saying it. So does Collo - and he has said it to me personally, and passionately. This is no joke - we are being run by a couple of idiots who do not understand what needs to be done to assemble an elite list of players so we have a chance at a flag. The sooner we can rid ourselves of Collo the better. He must go and go soon.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:27 am 
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Ken Hunter
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I agree we shoukld sack Collo and Denis - is Danny Frawley looking for job?

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:31 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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dannyboy wrote:
I agree we shoukld sack Collo and Denis - is Danny Frawley looking for job?



No but Malcolm Blight is looking for one :lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:33 am 
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Ken Hunter
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Peter Rhode would be cheaper 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:34 am 
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Alex Jesaulenko

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Yes but Blighty can coach- He might be a total fruitloop but he can coach

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:41 am 
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Ken Hunter
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But we don't want a coach - we want o tool who'll coach us to several glorious years at the bottom - think of all those Picks (cue Homer, head back, mouth open, dribble & disgusting sound).

Shit I'd make Rhode coach and president - we'd shoe in for picks then. 8)

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:53 am 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:10 am
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Carlton God wrote:
If you want to win 2 out of the next 3 games you are a selfish fool and don't have the clubs best interests at heart, its as simple as that. I'd go as far as saying you don't really care about Carlton.


Call me foolish...I'd like to win 3 out of 3....

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