I repeat for you , where have I said pick 5 is better? I haven't - of course that will not stop you from saying I have, as with many bullies you simply lie to further your argument.

What I am saying is that there will be kids like AB and Fish who will surprise us because they have other characteristics that really are not tested. I have not said they are champions but I have asked will they be? I hope they both are, not to prove an argument but because i like them both and becuase they both play for carlton.

As for your bleatings about PP the only thing I have said about them is that tanking/not tanking is a silly argument becuase none of us can actually influence the club and get them to tank/not tank - so why waste energy on an outcome we cannot effect?

But as usual you need a target because your arguments and fairy floss without a target. My main two concerns with this whole issue was 1) expectations on Murphy a kid we hadn't even drafted yet! 2) that Denis and co were now coming under fire for NOT tanking - that I do find absurd.

Read this Synbad. I do not think pick 5 is better than picks 1&2. That is just something you fabricate to try and use against me becuase that is how you argue. You have to make it personal. It isn't. I have nothing against tankers, against picks or against great kids. what I do know is that I have no say intanking/not tanking so I'll just support the boys and get through this season.

Try doing the same.


And 79 I agree they spot talent - but there will always be kids that get through and become far more than we expect - you may not belive this, I do. I base this on having worked with kids for the past 28 years in all works of life and all ages from prep through to young men, from prisoners to people with autism, from self abusers to drug addicts and from people in Australia and all over the world. The single thing I have learnt is that people surprise me and themselves all the time. Yes most Cha,mpions , gee if you want 95% will come fromthe top picks, but that wasn't what i was talking about. What I wanted to ask was simply - gee anyone think AB or Fish may be a lot better than we thought? silly question in this climate i guess because to want to praise one of the kids means i am an anti-tanker (for that read anti-christ).

Now scream all you want Synbad.

Oh but others, could you just read the article and make up your own minds (besides that brings money to the Carton football club - remember them, that's who we barrack for).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Well said danny,

And for everyone who has not read the article, give it a read:

What Makes a Champion?

... and make up your own mind.

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And I have considered this and given four examples of how this can occur.
Remember you're talking about 'champions', not just good players becoming very good players. Anyway, that's what I think.

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Blue is the colour, Blue is our colourful conversation, football is the game, talking carlton is our aim, we're all together, we're all together, winning is our aim, arguing is a pain, let's debate for gain. .. .!

Doull certainly was not a standout early on, as far as supporters were concerned. My probably hazy memory says he played a few games in the no 4 as a ruck rover in 69 then mainly back to the reserves, until he was floated in the media as a guy the Club had high hopes for over the 70/71 (or was it 71/72??) summer, with attention on the fact that he had asked for his number to be upped from 4 to 11, as he did not think he deserved such a low number.

Of course, the Club probably considered him a standout, as he received the no 4 in 69.

Synbad, just curious... it seems like you don't really rate Nicholls - as you believe he couldn't make it in today's game... or are you just trying to make a point about fitness levels?

What players do you rate as Carlton's top 5 players?

I would have Nicholls in my top 5 at least.

Hey synbad,

Who do you reckon would win a fight between Mighty Mouse and Spiderman?

I reckon there is no real way of telling, just as there is no real way of telling whether big Nick would make it in today's game.

It is not possible to answer either of these questions.

But as usual you would no doubt be correct and everyone else must be a fool.

Great article Dannyboy.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Nicholls was a great for the era he played in.
I rate him as a club champion.

My point was to dannyboy... you cant look at the past and draw a comparison with the present because the past is the past and the present is where we now live.
Dont throw what # Hird was chosen.. or Doull this and Doull that... because those years are gone..
What we have today is a draft and an underage system that pools ALL kids in the same fishbowl environment for every club to study, examine, disect, probe etc.
You wont be pulling to many champions out of your arse these days as those days are gone.
The reason why Nicholls was brought into the equation was just to parrallel that the past is the past and the way of the world changes.

As to me not rating him??I just said that three of the all time Carlton greats think he wouldnt make it into todays modern game...

The Great Nicholls and the Great Carlton could today be as obsolete as each other if we continue to look to our past and not read whats coming up in the road before us.

Might even hang the Navy Blue Jumper in the Museum next to Phar Laps testicals as a hitorical relic

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Well, there is only one way that this club ever won all those peremierships and thats by having more talent than everyone else.
The world changes but that will always be a constant.

If yopure going to pretend we dont need more talent than everybody else as a platform to build a premiership side than you have no idea....

If youre going to tell me all about where Hird was picked up in the draft.. like some people do.. well tell me which player in this yeard draft will you take at around # 40 thats going to help change a clubs fortunes..

Sure there MIGHT be one but name him now.. identify the talent today...

Any takers???

Nam a name that you think will have great talent and leadership that will not be taken in the top 40 this year.....


Yes lets talk about 'clever recruiting'...

Just a very naive off the cuff theory.

Were in a situation where we need to be realistic!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad,

Did you actually read my post?

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Synbad,

Where did I say;



You have no idea what my thougths are.

Typical bully boy approach.

I actually do believe that we need to seriously re-build, but you wouldn't know this because you don't read, comprehend or listen.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

Yeah i did.. you arent sure if having very good picks will help the club with a loss.. as compared to goodish picks but winning games against noones.

Yeah i did.....

Toss a coin then???

Youy have to have a plan!!!
You cannot go forwards by a winning culture when Collingwood went away with last weeks win with more than we did.. and allow them to further improve their list more than we do.

If the winning culture was all that we should have won that game by 100 points.
Were the opnly team without significanmt injuries.

We need talent....!!!

Its not a fight between two cartoon characters as which of the sameness is better!!!

Thats just a no brainer that we have to put much more thought into our future than that kind of comparison....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Oh fair dinkum.. go cry!!!

Bullyboy approach...

Pffffffffffffft....



But if you think we should rebuild SERIOUSLY why argfue about what road to rebuilding we should take???

Theres only one road.. thats the draft and psd...

Your chances are seriously enhanced with earlier picks..

So its a no brainer !!!

Its no fight between spiderman and superman or any other superhero.

Its just common sense and forward planning about what you CAN control over what you cant control....(ie freaky picks with pick number 327)

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad no one was arguing about it until you came stomping around in here.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Dannyboy is right, a true champion needs those "intangible qualities", that can't be taught or bought.

The #1, 2, 3 pick should all have the talent, and possibly the physical abilities to be a star of the game, but will they have the "it" factor? We won"t know for 5 or 6 years probably.

And Synbad is also right, 2 or 3 in the top 6 would be great and will give us a greater chance of finding kids with the "it" factor.

But this didn't start out as a discussion on 1, 2 & 3 vs 40 &50.

It started out with a very good article from danny asking how some of our past champions would have faired at draft camp. An interesting thought.

I want 1 & 2 in the draft as well, but whatever we end up with, I will be watching them over the next year or 2 to see them show signs of those "intangibles", just like AB is doing now.

I knew you'd understand Mrs Caz. I have my fingers crossed with AB - now I may be a mile off the track BUT I'll cross them anyway.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

So let me get this straight... Danny writes another masterpiece on something and it degenerated into another PP debate? This is getting old quickly.

Nice piece DB, Jarusa should get on the stats with how successful #1 Draft Picks have been historically... Let's start with the first ever #1 Draft Pick Martin Leslie for the Bears... Team of the Century member and all.

And Synbad, I know the talent identification has gotten better, but that's what DB was saying... They test players like they were robots... not people, players with heart, guts. They test athletes, not footballers. I know some great footballers in years gone by who didn't get picked up because they were too slow, or too short, but they were good players.

I love Carlton and I want the team to develop as you do, I just don't want to witness any more of this crap. I just want us to be good again!

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What if everything is an illusion and nothing exists? In that case, I definitely overpaid for my carpet
Woody Allen