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JackWorrall
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:10 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Times have changed since the days of clubs running three grades of football teams, and with lists limited to so few players, the luxury of allowing a long apprenticeship in the reserves (Bullants) doesn't exist anymore.

While there were cases of players playing many games in the reserves (a la Tuck, Doull etc.), the reality is most of them didn't make it, and the odds on someone succeeding after such a long period of time are long.

As for getting stuck into poor performers, it's a natural frustration to vent the spleen over someone who has obvious talent, but doesn't have the commitment. Justin Davies springs to mind as someone who doesn't have the temperament for AFL. That doesn't mean he's a lesser person, but it does mean he's better off finding another vocation in life.

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AGRO
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:16 pm 
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Warby wrote:
A prime example of this was Dermott Brereton who made a memorable debut in the '82 First Semi Final when he kicked 5 goals.


Didnt get too many kicks in his second game against Bruce Doull in the 82 PF. 8) :wink:

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Chitty's Finger
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:04 pm 
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Dear Mr.Man

Not sure how you can take my earlier post as a rant - all i was saying is that players 4-5 years in should be subject to scrutiny. Thats a statement of fact. It annoys me wholeheartedly when people bag the juniors, but Wiggins, Prenders etc. carry our hopes and appear on form not to be up to it. Thats not a whole negative rant but almost FACT

almost because its my view but almost fact because our mid tier just arent leading the club like they do elsewhere.

We'd all love to see Sporn and Wiggins and Bannister taking on the opposition and kicking goals but 2005 was not an improvement in 2004. As fans we have hopes becoming demands and most acknowledge those that don't meet those expectations.

As for my comment about those players not caring about what I say, I was more demeaning my own view. Im not a yeller at the footy so they wouldnt ever hear me.

Players of 4-5 years in the game ar eopen to criticism.

Mr A T de Wonderkidde

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Warby
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:23 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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AGRO wrote:
Warby wrote:
A prime example of this was Dermott Brereton who made a memorable debut in the '82 First Semi Final when he kicked 5 goals.


Didnt get too many kicks in his second game against Bruce Doull in the 82 PF. 8) :wink:


....or against Rhys in the '87 GF.... :wink:

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verbs
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:41 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Cazzesman wrote:
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
i can give a young guy say 2-3 years to make it, but in Year 4 they have to be open to criticism. Like they care what I think anyway! Wiggins, Sporn, Bannister, Prenders - these guys have been around for 5 years + and still aren't in the Best 22. These guys deserve scrutiny.


AtW,

Of course they care what people think. Just because they are AFL footballers doesn't mean they no-longer have feelings or are immune to the criticism received from the masses over the fence.

We all know people who go overboard and many live on TC.

This crap about...."I spend my money so I can say what I like'...is a complete copout. How do you think the 'average joe supporter' would go if some players came into the supporters workplace and abused the hell out of the person whenever the job skills were poor or a wrong decision was made. If think the fun would go out of the job ASAP.

Wiggo, Prender and Jordy (I don't really know Sporny) are terrific, genuine blokes who are always up for a chat. They give their all at every turn. Okay they may struggle to cement a spot in the team and they aren't game winners but they have still made it onto an AFL list and have played many more games than any of us ever will.

They don't mean to play poorly. None take a backward step on the field. None are lazy, layabouts who are out drinking all night. They deserve some respect for having the right attitude when it is all said and done.

Yes they do deserve scrutiny and yes they do get it from within the club.

Okay they get paid fairly well to do what they do but that doesn't mean it should be 'open season' and all guns blazing on them when they struggle.

Regards Cazzesman


Those players who lie in bed at night fretting about what they heard over the fence are the ones who don't have (and most likely never will have) the temperament to really make it.

The amount of concentration needed to play a game of footy means 99.9% of crap being spouted by supporters is completely blocked out.

I don't agree with the kind of behaviour being talked about, and I don't partake in it, but at the end of the day it has little (if any) impact on the players themselves.
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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:46 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Athorn the Wonderkid wrote:
Dear Mr.Man

Not sure how you can take my earlier post as a rant - all i was saying is that players 4-5 years in should be subject to scrutiny.
Mr A T de Wonderkidde


Dear Mr Wonderkidde,

I may be wrong (I often am :wink: ) but I think Mr Man didn't rant against your post. He just highlighted your comment about the players not caring what you think and then made a comment against that.

He then went on to rant against all those others who do behave like mad rabies-ridden lunatics towards our younger and less talented players. Criticism is deserved yes...but not the other.

Yours in perpetual optimism
Mrs Caz

PS - pass the red wine please.
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dannyboy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 7:54 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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sportspeople get paid so much to entertain, when a player fails to do this (usually this means winning) they recieve the same treatment any entertainer has copped for disappointing the audience. That's life.

Choose it and you choose the audience.

Or you play a sport for far far less.

These kids might not like it and it might upset them but they must accept that they are entertainers, that is their job and that is all there is to it.

Try singing a song in a cabaret while two tables are pelting you with all the food they can lay their hands on... Or performing and copping a whack to the jaw from a 16 year old kid unable to tell the difference between a show and reality (while his teachers fled I might add) or being booed off stage for no other reason than they felt like booing, and so on. That was my work place, that's the lot of an entertainer. That is all a footballer is.

So entertain, get paid and be happy

or fail to entertain, get paid and cop your whack from the audience.

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Warby
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:09 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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We all know what a critic is don't we?

"A critic is one who leaves no turn unstoned"

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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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But what does that say about the audience danny?

I find the fact that people who in everyday life seem to be able to function quite well without turning into lunatics, and suddenly turn that way against football players, quite disturbing.
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dannyboy
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 9:49 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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na that's why they pay, thats what its all about and the more money we invest the more so - right or wrong? Pffft, no diff to the thumbs up thumbs down in ancient times.

take that out and watch the money flee.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!
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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:03 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Well, if I ever get to that stage, you can take me out and shoot me...
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malbi
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:08 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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What I don't like Mrs C is supporters yelling abuse at the players during the game. Supporters from all clubs do it, but it is a part of our society that is particularly poor. Sure we can get frustrated by the way that our club may be playing, but don't let us rant and rave so that mothers are hiding their children. :?
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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:14 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I so agree with you mallee...I know that I cringe from the rolled up Footy Record being slammed against the barrier in front of us,(who could that be? :-D ) but that is far enough as far as I am concerned.
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verbs
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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But there is a great range of supporter characteristics, like any aspect of society. I just don't think much of it at all rubs off on the players.
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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:27 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Except the ones who are hanging over the fence, spittle flying into the faces of the youg kids...

Or the jerks who accost them on the street...


It is going to happen ...and it does affect them...
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verbs
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:35 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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The impact of the hanging over the fence thing falls back on the mental strength of a player. That happens across all grades of footy.

As for the other bit, it happens, but should (and no doubt is) be taken with a grain of salt.
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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:38 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Maybe...but I'd prefer to meet a bloke wh was still affected by that...
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verbs
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:40 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Mrs Caz wrote:
Maybe...but I'd prefer to meet a bloke wh was still affected by that...


??? In a good way? I'm not sure what you mean.
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Mrs Caz
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:42 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Reach into your feminine side verbs.... :lol:
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verbs
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 10:47 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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I don't have one. :lol:

If you're talking about the supporters hanging over the fence thing, not many "senstive" guys actually play footy, and if they do....actually, none do.

:lol:

As far as being approached in the street goes...away from the heat of the stadium...it's mostly drunken louts mouthing off, right? Which, at the end of the day, means jack all.
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