Can't remember it exactly but didn't know you relied on BRITISH prime ministers Beano!

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

Fremantle.

I'm guessing that with all the flooding in current day football that all sides ratio's (LK/TK) will have dropped in the past 5 years.

It's Campos fault. All those cheap short kicks across half-back.

2005 Long Kick/Total Kick Ratio

1 - Fremantle (41.19%) LgK/TK
2 - St Kilda (40.96%) LgK/TK
3 - Carlton (40.92%) LgK/TK
4 - Collingwood (38.43%) LgK/TK
5 - Richmond (38.26%) LgK/TK
6 - Melbourne (38.21%) LgK/TK
6 - West Coast (38.21%) LgK/TK
8 - Essendon* (37.83%) LgK/TK
9 - Adelaide (37.71%) LgK/TK
10 - Geelong (37.67%) LgK/TK
11 - Kangaroos (37.5%) LgK/TK
12 - Sydney (37.25%) LgK/TK
13 - Port Adelaide (35.69%) LgK/TK
14 - Western Bulldogs (34.94%) LgK/TK
15 - Brisbane (34.64%) LgK/TK
16 - Hawthorn (34.11%) LgK/TK

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.

Jar you have to get the ball first to be able to kick long dont you.
So what you are saying we have a coach whose game plan is based on low posession football and a direct long kicking game and we are doing less now than when he first took over.

This would back up my arguement that we have gone backwards under Pagan . Wouldn't It

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Months ago, when people were debating wheather the 2005 would beat the 2002 side, I did a rudimentary calculation which indicated the 2005 side would outscore the 2002 side, and would do so with less possessions.

Yay, I won the sweep.

I knew you would be the first to pick this up BV. The twist will be revealed a little later. Shakin has already provided a glimpse.

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Oh, just a general frustration.

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Formerly: Ackland the Wonderkid / Army the Wonderkid / quivering mess / molsey / Tony Lynn Fan Club

Those stats have NOTHING to do with low-possession/high possession football.

Do you understand what a percentage is?

Well... do you.

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I'm 99% sure I do.

Carlton's Ranking in the AFL - Long Kick/Total Kick Ratio

2000: 14
2001: 8
2002: 12
2003: 2
2004: 1
2005: 3

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Working alone. At the coalface. Scott's gone for lunch! Said he would be back in 30 mins.

How could Fevola kick any goals if all we did was bomb it long?

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

so perhaps we do not 'bomb' it long thoughtlessly as the myth goes (same criticism that was oft labelled at Hafey), rather it may be the plan is to set the ball into certain positions and then kick long to an advantage (ie a Fev or Fish lead, space for someone to run to etc.)?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

A glimpse is correct Jarusa.
One year statistics can often be affected by injuries, etc.
To judge whether Pagans Carlton is the longest kicking side per kick, we need to judge over the past 3 years.

Who would be the longest kicking side per kick since Pagan came to Carlton?

(Does this bust the busting of the Myth?)

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Good stuff there Shakin, (saving me some work).

The situation has gone from 50% of your kicks being long, ranking a team way down in 14th for long kicks in 2000 to now where 40% of your kicks being long ranks you in the top couple of long kicking team.

The game has radically changed!!

I had a look at where the last five premiers ranked with respect to the Long Kick/Total Kick ratio. Makes for very interesting reading.

The last Five premierships have been won by teams in the bottom 5 for long kicks/total kicks.

In other words the short game has won the last five premierships.

The game we once knew has changed enormously.

This is the twist.

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do you think this is a permanent change?

Do they kick long once they are in a better position?

What was Sydney's first half stats like compared to their second half?

Brisbane did not kick long?

There are many questions here.

I do not thik the question is kick loing or kick short

I think the question is when to kick long and what to do with the pill while getting to that 'when'.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Do our players have the confidence to go for shorter passes on the lead, or are only a select few 'allowed' to go the short pass (Houlihan, Stevens.) Are they scared to take a risk; instead kicking it long.

We must give the ball to Houla on the wing whenever we can

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"You are being watched. The government has a secret system. A machine that spies on you every hour of every day. I know because I built it." - Finch

absolutely.

2005: Sydney 5th shortest kicking team
2004: Port Adelaide, outright shortest kicking team
2003: Brisbane, 3rd shortest
2002: Brisbane, 4th shortest
2001: Brisbane, 3rd shortest
2000: Essendon*, 3rd Longest kicking team.

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so if this is in response to flooding and you would expect the shitty teams to flood more often (minimise damage) then the better teams would be forced to kick the ball around more often to work their way around/through the flood. Is this telling us that the last 5 years the better teams (ie those most often flooded against) have won the flag?

is this also a reflection of skill. The more skills the more short kicks because lof less turnovers/more possession for longer periods?

The less skill teams (just think carlton here) get to kick once, twice and then turnover or shit kick to a player who miust bomb it long because of the pressure?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Just maybe it is the other way around, that we turn the ball over because the long kicking game increases the margin for error. With a short pass game plan players are more often kicking to a player by himself whereas a long kicking game plan will more often result in kicking to a contest.

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“Before you criticise someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticise them, you're a mile a way and you have their shoes."

You've started me on one of my waffles Jarusa.

I wrote some thoughts about this in June 2004 on TBV.

http://www.theblueview.org/phpboard/vie ... juggernaut

The Saints who were flying (10 straight?) had just been defeated by the Swans.
The gamestyle the Swans were playing was the only one which was proving effective against the flooding style game which Brisbane and St Kilda were using.

In 2002 Wayne Brittain made a comment that to succeed at Telstra Dome you had to play basketball.
I believe that he envisaged where the game was going but the media werent smart enough to pick it up.
The issue isnt long kicks per kick but when to play a particular style of game.
The statistics are not sophisticated enough to show the details any longer.

In basketball there are usually 2 methods of offensive play.
Fast break or retaining possession to set up a break in the opposition defence.
That is exactly how football has developed.
The best, preferred and most effective method is a fast break from defence or midfield.
Coaches have countered this with placing numbers behind the ball (flooding) and slowing up play at all costs. (grabbing opponents when they mark to slow play)

The only methods available when play has been slowed or a flood is set are
a. Kick long

b. Retain possession, kick sideways, backwards etc and try to crack the defensive zone.

Where the sides like the Swans are effective is the players have the ability to decide what tempo of play is required.
At the end of the game the statistics show how many short kicks and how many long kicks but the issue is not how many, but when to use them.

Waffle over.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

this highlights why the game is generally worse now than it was 5 years ago.Therefore there is less contested marks and contests.