Apart from anything else; I'm just pleased that something has been said pertaining to our current situation and our short and long term view into the future.

So many people have been moaning about a lack of a plan or the supposed lack of one, and intimating that no one at Carlton had any idea of how to run a Football Club.

Even the much maligned Mike Sheahan said after we lost those infamous "1 and 2" picks and all of the others as well that "This could put this Club back at least 5 to 8 years....even longer".

Well Mike; we're fighting our way out of it!

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

This is why supporting the CFC in the future will be so sweet. We are re building the hard way, we all know its only a matter of time before we will become a top club again.

Until then, support our kids and one day they will repay our faith. Im talking to all the impatient supporters who want Russell, Hartlett etc to become superstars overnight.

GO BLUES AND BUY A MEMEBERSHIP.......

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"Dont count the games, make the games count"

No, at least one, if not both of those trades we could have done without. There were players such as Swallow (who will be drafted high this year) and Brad Moran (who was taken by the Kangaroos and could be anything) that we could have drafted. You don't just assume that any cast-off or semi cast-off with the vaguest up-side will be better than a late draft pick, you do your home-work.

I will go one step further and say that the real rebuilding won't start until next year when we can dump a few players - those who survived the cull because they are contracted; and replace them with players from a stronger draft pool.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

And there's also Paul Thomas who was taken at pick 60 and has just been delisted afer one year.I'll go he if anyone has a huge success rate with low draftpicks.

Funny that 16 other clubs also overlooked Jordan Lewis and John Meeson in the 2003 draft, yet the only criticism we hear is about Carlton's stuffups!
http://www.talkingcarlton.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6752

[/quote]There were players such as Swallow (who will be drafted high this year) and Brad Moran (who was taken by the Kangaroos and could be anything) that we could have drafted. You don't just assume that any cast-off or semi cast-off with the vaguest up-side will be better than a late draft pick, you do your home-work.[/quote]


Where is the crystal ball that says A) Swallow and Moran will make it in the AFL and that B) the homework wasn't done at the time on these 2 and they were discounted then for a number of reasons?

15 other clubs passed on Swallow. We went with Raso as a project. Prior to the draft Moran had played 3/5ths of Sweet FA at Australian Rules after coming from England. He spent all year in the Port Melb Reserves learning the game.

I would suggest the chances of Moran making it at the time were at the same level or less than Setanta and Aisake making it. Did we need another prospect that in all reality was not much more than an International Rookie?

Regards Cazzesman

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

as i have said before when people ask why not late draft picks and kids etc we have placed our faith in 3 long term projects, the two irish boys and Raso. three is enough at one given time.

At the end of this year we will know more about the two irish boys and then decide on further punts (if needed). We are rebuilding and we are building on youth, just not all at once which i would think the right way to go - balance.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Perhaps the reason 15 other clubs passed on Swallow is because they had already had used up there late picks. Carlton is just historically too damn gutless to take the risk. I am not having a go at us not picking up either Moran or Swallow. I am being critical of the 'play it save' mentality it is just a 'poor man's Elliot' when you think about it.

I don't think you can seriously say that the acquisition of both Cambers and Longmuir was rebuilding or even anything to do with 'balance'. It was just Pagan or whoever knowing that trading the high picks would cause a backlash but still wincing that what he/they had at his/their disposal in the short term still did not look good. At best it was tipping the balance back the wrong way.

The idea that any pick outside of the third round is not worth having is just plain gutless, not to mention untrue. Of course I should have expected cries of ‘of course they do their homework’ but the undeniable fact is that just because a clubs heart is arguably in the right place does not mean that they are absolved from all blame if they make mistakes.

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Just because I'm offended, doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Before I enter into this discussion any further can we have the actual timelines you are referring to here. Is it from when Pagan took over or pre Pagan. Is it when Wayne Hughes took over or pre. Is it pre or post Ian Collins.

What tends to happen in these discussions is the line becomes blurred depending on who is arguing a point and what the point is.

When it comes to your 3rd paragraph I'd like to know who you actually think has been gutless and who you think is making the mistakes.

Regards Cazzesman

.

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Ricky Gervais - “Everyone has the right to hold whatever beliefs they want. And everyone else has the right to find those beliefs f***ing ridiculous.”

Paf; I can recall Denis saying he was a fan of Chambers for years, and how he thought he didn't get a fair go over there and was positively rapt to get him at Carlton.

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No ones listening till you make a mistake.

I see that you are advocating the drafting of Justin Crowe for a rookie spot in another post. By jingo what happens if we don't do our homework and Justin Crowe on the rookie list means a Bret Thornton misses out?

Pretty gutless recruiting I would think.