Look, im sorry mikkey.. but i was told cataguorrically last year it was 1.5 ish mill...
and if you knew it was going to be 7 mill and its not a surprise why didnt you tell us when we have been asking on here for the last couple of months???

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Well excuse me - may I suggest you read last years financial reports? I can't remember the exact number from last year - but it was not 1.5 Mill. The major increase in liabilities and debt was in the financial year 2004 when the stand was written down. We all know that - don't we??

Also, in order to understand the Club's financial position you need to look at the consolidated numbers for Social Club and Football Club.

The key is to look at the operating expenses and income of the football club and the expenses of the SC which runs PP. It is also important to understand the subtle differences of "liabilities" and "debt" - also that "debt" can be a debt facility.

As I said people should have a read. The Board has made it quite clear that the football club's finances are reasonable within the 3-year plan established (which included the move to TD etc.). The key issues are the maintenance costs for PP and the debt from the Legends Stand which cost great amounts in interest payments - plus it has to be paid at some stage.

That is why cash flow is so tight and the situation still critical. As the auditors report states:

[quote]As indicated in Note 1 “Going Concernâ€

bag away SB but please don't pretend (little girl with freckles, twirling umbrella etc) it was a simple question. Loaded as the proverbial dog

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

They make the figures whatever they want them to be. Write off this, don't write off that, it's all bullsh!t. We made a profit last year despite a horrible season. That's good.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

I thought I'd get a bite.

You can bag Pagan, you can bag me and I can bag you.

John Howard was wearing a Bulldogs scarf. There funds came from the federal government.

Is the social club part of "WE"?

Good point - the consolidated entity made a loss of around 900 K due to PP / Legends Stand.

The one thing you can't fudge is debt numbers Game. Debt numbers are the first thing audited - auditors write their confirmation letters to banks and banks fill in the blanks. This debt level is not too much different to last year - look at the reports, and mikkey is spot on.

THe confusion comes from the level of offset achieved from the AFL / OO redirection. I thought that there was reporting at the time suggesting that this effectively put us as a net of $1.5m debt but that was only press reporting and never came from the Club, as far as I can tell.

The club is no doubt at its lowest ebb....

I applaud the current board such a mess they inherited and they have tackled the situation front on..... We are behind the 8 ball but to go forward you have to spend money and money is one thing we aint got Miikkey thanks for clearing that up some think they know more than others in charge love to see them run the club

Unfortunately Malcolm Fraser left office in 1983.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

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I think this figure was the contribution from the AFL to allow us to release ourselves from the Spotless Catering contracts at Princes Park.

Ironic really that the AFL Commission would allocate us funds to payout Spotless Catering.

Now let me refresh my memory, Ron Evans is Chairman of the AFL and also a Director and major shareholder in Spotless Catering. No conflict of interest there.

Looking after Carlton's interest were you Ron??? or just your own?? you lying sack of hypocritical shit.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

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Just to make things a little clearer. When they talk about "$ 7 M debt" - the way I read the numbers - they are talking about how much the total liabilities exceed assets. That does not automatically mean it is the exact amount owed to anyone. I.e. when we first built the Legends Stand we "owed" (financed) much more (I think it was more then 12 million for the stand if my memory serves me right).

However, the balance sheet looked much better because the "value" of the stand was set at a high number and at the time we had more assets then liabilities. But again - the assets exceeded the liabilities only because of the "assumed" value of the stand.

In 2004 we wrote down the value of the stand by 10.5 million - which meant that assets were reduced by 10.5 million. That is how we ended up having more liabilities then assets (on a consolidated basis). The FC has 3.8 million of liabilties exceeding assets and the SC has 3.5 Million of liabilities exceeding assets.

In 2004 the FC had 4 Million "red" in net assets and the SC $2.35 million in the red. So consolidated the equity of the FC and SC has in 2005 further decreased by about $1 million which is reflected in the consolidated negative result of SC and FC together.

So all in all we are $1 million less in net assets then a year ago.

The total "debt" = liabilities = "money we owe" is for SC and FC combined
about 17 million. (I do not know if / how much of this is money owing from the FC to the SC- but assume it is not much). This is partly off-set by "assets" which is both the value of the FC's and SC assets + money in the bank + money owed to FC/SC = 9.7 Million (again with the disclaimer of not knowing if any money owed between the 2 entities) resulting in said net negative assets / equity of 7+ Millions. This is what the media was talking about.

It should be mentioned that most companies who have a red number in net assets / equity are very quickly in administration / liquidation. The only reason we are not - are as mentioned in the auditors notes:



So in other words - we are still in big poo poo. However we have been in this situation for many years even before the accounts showed negative net assets. Reason being that the main asset (Legends Stand ) was completely over valued. So at least we have a realistic picture now since the 2004 revaluation.

Hope this makes it clear as mud ...

PRIVATE OWNERSHIP!

Is there a Holmes a Court or a Russell Crowe in the house?

It's happening in our neighbouring code up North. Not to mention the A League clubs, which are privately owned. Have a look a LaPaglia bask in the glory last night. If it wasn't LaPaglia celebrating last night, it was going to be Singleton. Either way, it's all private money propping up the A League.

Think it can't happen in the AFL? Do you think the AFL will bail us out? Think again. Yes, I know the AFL have a publicly stated view they won't approve of a privately owned club, but that was before they were presented with this mess. I think if somehow a private consortium came forward with an offer, it would have to be seriously considered by the AFL. In all reality, we have lost our autonomy already. As we speak, we are only surviving because of the AFL underwriting us and because of the so called goodwill put forward by the NAB. So, we are already compromised.

If the Crowe/Holmes a Crt deal is not accepted by the Rabbitohs, perhaps we can ask Cinderella Man to toss his cash our way?

By the way, will SEN interview Big Jack tomorrow morning? I'd like to hear his spin on this now!

Collins blasts team as woes deepen

Spin can't conceal strife - Ugly Hag.

Didn't the AFL threaten to pull the pin on paying out the Princes Park contract if we moved to the G?

Or was that spin from the board?

i dont know much on this subject as i have tried to exclude myself from conversation about it - in fear that we might soon see that last carlton game. but all that aside, how the f*** can we expect to get out of a $7mil debt? not to mention the interest wed have to pay on it annually....im scared

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The NAB debt is 100% guaranteed by the AFL in any event, so the NAB are not the slightest bit concerned about losing any money here.

Ahmed Fahour wouldn't let anything happen to Carlton either from an NAB perspective anyway.

A default is a default and Banks make decisions on reclamation of cash not on personal affiliations. But I take your point - if its AFL guaranteed there's no issue (as well as being impossible to reclaim if we're no longer a going concern). A bank wouldnt want to run such a complex business - well let me say couldn't.

So its really the servicing costs that hurt us - one report said up to $500k pa

Tell you what - I think Caroline Wilson was as scathing as she could be whilst maintaining a working relationship with the board. Seems like she's posted all her doubts about the decisions Collo et al have taken in that one little article - and presumably because the club has leaked the assistance story and then made her look bad by denying it was ever the case.....
Unless I misread the article (and the tone of previous ones) - I think Collo's been very stupid in that case, turning a largely sympathetic writer into an unsympathetic one.....