Danny that is the worst post I have ever seen you put up - these guys were barely 20 when Denis arrived there is no possible way Brittain ruined there careers . If they were playing under Denis the chances were that would not even of had a senoir game .

we are quick to criticise thomas with Goddard and co but fail to look in our own back yard =

Danny that is the worst post I have ever seen you put up - these guys were barely 20 when Denis arrived there is no possible way Brittain ruined there careers . If they were playing under Denis the chances were that would not even of had a senoir game .

we are quick to criticise thomas with Goddard and co but fail to look in our own back yard =

Did Britts decide to trade Massie for Eccles?
Did Britts give up on Fevola?
Did Britts take Fletcher and Pickering to the Tigers with him?
Did Britts recruit Lindsay Smith to Carlton after Denis gave him the flick at the Roos?
These are just the ones that roll off the top of my head.

Did Britts decide to trade Massie for Eccles?
Did Britts give up on Fevola?
Did Britts take Fletcher and Pickering to the Tigers with him?
Did Britts recruit Lindsay Smith to Carlton after Denis gave him the flick at the Roos?
These are just the ones that roll off the top of my head.

Gotta go with Sydney here, dannyboy... I rather dismissive post to a complex issue that glossed over the subtleties of the concept.

the issue isn't that Wiggins, Sporn and Davies is shit and therefore Pagan can't develop. Those 3 I was using as examples of Pagan's "haphazard" development strategies. All incongruous and ultimately unproductive. No development plan.

Year but Brittains win/loss record at Carltons is better than Denis .

Surely jbee you cant be happy where we are at we are staring down a 10 goal belting off the pies this week followed by probably a 6-8 goal loss to the bombers and then face the saints who will probably belt us by 100 +

did Britts bring in mott- Angwin - Norman - Harford - Morrell - Johnson - Clarke - Martyn - Bannister- Deluca - Bryan - etc etc etc

Pagans recruiting record is no beteer than Brittain and brittain never had access to top draft picks as we we higher up the ladder - How many Prioty pick did Brittain have

Angwin and Norman were not bought in by Pagan.

Year but Brittains win/loss record at Carltons is better than Denis .

Surely jbee you cant be happy where we are at we are staring down a 10 goal belting off the pies this week followed by probably a 6-8 goal loss to the bombers and then face the saints who will probably belt us by 100 +

did Britts bring in mott- Angwin - Norman - Harford - Morrell - Johnson - Clarke - Martyn - Bannister- Deluca - Bryan - etc etc etc

Pagans recruiting record is no beteer than Brittain and brittain never had access to top draft picks as we we higher up the ladder - How many Prioty pick did Brittain have

Who bought them in?

Mate, try in your next performance review at work to say "well, I performed well, because I made 10 mistakes and Bob made 15"

doesn't wash mate

I've said it once and I'll say it again that draft has more to do with where we are now as a club than any other single thing. If anyone can show me a club that has had 3 picks in the first 15 picks of draft and come up with our result I would be staggered.

Davies was contracted for two years, and we'd have to pay him out AND it goes under the cap for the years he was meant to receive the money. That's why we kept him.

They figure, take the hit, or see if we still might get something out of a young kid. They kept him, because they can't pay him out.

I think me, Benny and the Sheik of CSC fame were telling everyone that the day after the draft.....when you get told that wingman are growing into CHB's you have to be concerned..try 0/6 for that draft if Livo, Wiggo dont come up this season.....that bites you 5 years down the track when those players or at least half should be decent contributors....
Not that the draft of 2000 failures is an indication of Pagans progress...

Another string of poor decisions by the Blues at contract time.... it wasn't just him either. Bannister, Chambers, Longmuir.... all showed F@%&#! nothing in 2005 but had 2 year contracts so woops! better keep them and only have 4 draft picks and leave Jesse Smith on the rookie list and de-list Becker! Thats good planning! Better to leave all the chaf on the list, finish last in 2006 and de-list 10 players and load up in the superdraft!

shocking... shocking planning and list management (ie DEVELOPMENT!!!)

What are your expectations for a coach?

IMHO The ideal coach should identify and implement a philosophy which suits the circumstances of the club and be consistent with it.
There are varying interested parties with varying agendas but a strong coach will stick to his guns.

In my opinion, a development coach is our perfect fit.
Wins are nice and consistent form from senior players is great but development and education of our kids is crucial.

I fear our kids have been severely compromised in their development.
The right to make decisions, be creative and exposed to a multi facetted game style walked out the door the day Pagan walked in.

In his first pre season, Pagan totally reprogrammed the players to play a "direct, efficient, collision brand of football"
If a player changed direction in the backline, he stopped them, if a player handballed outside the corridor to a running player, he stopped them. If a player kicked short to a leading forward, he stopped them.
He removed any decision making from the players.

For the first 2 years we played a regimented, low possession game of football that intentionally stifled creativity.

We are now suffering the consequences.
Pagan has finally realised that a significant change of gamestyle is required but the players are not conditioned to adapt.
They struggle with decision making. They lack creative impulses.
You cant stifle a players offensive development and then flick it on a like a light switch.

We bemoan our kick out strategies. We get frustrated when players make foolish decisions.
Where is the development?

Go watch our players train. They are totally restructuring a game style which they had drummed in to them for 2 years.
Whilst we are totally restructuring, other teams are fine tuning.
We spend little time on kick outs and set plays.
We're too busy trying to catch up with the basics.

When we do work on set plays, we are trying to devise our own kickouts. We dont have time to structure up for our opponents kickouts.
There isnt enough time.

This stuff should have been part of their development since 2003.
Instead we have totally reprogrammed the way our players think and play football and then tried to change them back.
There"s been no opportunity to work on any intricacies.

I know we have parents of players who read this site and I dont mean to offend but if my son played for Carlton, I'd be filthy.
As far as I'm concerned, his development has been compromised and stunted.
Whilst Adam Cooney is immersing himself in the encyclopedia of football, our youngsters are being offered the cat in the hat.

Our training is second rate. It has nothing to do with facilities. It's about intellectual stimulation.
Denis Pagan does drills with 6 backs playing on 6 forwards.
How often does that happen in a game?
Watch Barry Mitchell train the Bullants and 4 backs play on 2 forwards. The midfielders are required to improvise, think their way through an adverse situation and make decisions.
Can they spot a forward who is outnumbered? Can those forwards make space for each other?
That is indicative of true match conditions.
That is development.

Development is about making the most of the time available. Offering as much relevant information to players to accelerate their development.
The damage to our players isnt just about today. It's not about yesterday.
It's about realising how much development our players are missing and preventing it happening tomorrow.

Davies was contracted for two years, and we'd have to pay him out AND it goes under the cap for the years he was meant to receive the money. That's why we kept him.

They figure, take the hit, or see if we still might get something out of a young kid. They kept him, because they can't pay him out.

Dynamite players on the list? You're undervaluing Pagan and overvaluing our stocks. The ones coming in are part of our future for sure but you make it sound Pagan has a premiership 22 and he's pissing it against a wall. Don't be daft.