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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2026 8:14 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Yesterday was a case of 2 Bonafide Ruck Forward Rucks vs 1 part time No 1 ruck and a plodding ruck.

v Saints TDK / Marshall vs Pittonet/ Reidy
v Freo Jackson/ Cox vs Reidy/ Young

We have a BIG man problem Houston.

Rucks like Gawn are freaks Rucking for 90% GT with stints going forward, as does Jackson, and Grundy who plays solely ruck for 85-90%.

I think we can all agree Carlton needs a No1 ruckman in 2027 who can play for more than 60% GT ie Pittonet. Any more and Pitto is playing fatigued.

Got me thinking last year about my position on Harry rucking as the Fwd Ruck to Pitto with Charlie at FF.
Last year I thought Harry had become that perfect Fwd-Ruck. His pay check suggested different. We got the salary for purpose wrong.

No doubt in my mind, we need two rucks. Two competent rucks who can also forward. At least one of the has to be dangerous forward.

I prefer the Fwd Ruck isn't one of the 2 KPFs, FF and CHF. Beggers cant be choosers. Right now we can say we have had some success with a more mobile forwardline in Gov and Kempy. Harry was out vs Freo and yesterday Harry played KPF with the two mobile talls bby his side. Harry should play as our Fwd Ruck for the rest of 2026.

I expect Harry to share the ruck 50-50 per quarter with Pitto. 2 rests for Pitto. Harry can be useful around the ground as a llink up target.
Who knows, the novelty of playing ruck may improve his kicking.

Hopefully OKeefe gets back on his bike in the next couple months and take over Pittonet's role for development. Pittonet will miss games going forward, so we are going to want to see more of OKeefe

Harry is a flower cat Bondi. He’s irredeemably weak sauce.

It’s over.
Lewis Young is probably better as that second ruck option at the moment. At least he's versatile.

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 Post subject: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 7:51 am 
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Harry Vallence
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I'd love to see Young as our Ruck-Forward.

I've been carrying on about it ever since he played that one game up forward early last year, I believe it was.

He's no Plugger, that's for sure. But it's not his goal kicking that impressed me (I think he maybe kicked one?), it was his connection with the small forwards.

He brought the ball to ground for them and looked to dish it off to them if they were in space, when he had possession. He didn't just try to clunk contested marks all day, because he knows he's not supposed to kick 5 from set shots.

He genuinely seemed to enjoy his time up there too, which was nice to see.

Send H down back with Weiters. If they can't sort out opposition key forwards between the two of them... Well, let's hope it doesn't get to that stage.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 9:31 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Location: Bondi Beach
Adam Simpson on his Top 10 rucks

Quote:
West Coast Eagles premiership coach Adam Simpson has listed his top 10 ruckmen in the AFL through the first seven rounds!

Basing his list off a list of crucial statistics, Simpson ranked the best big men in the competition, from a pair of dynamic duos to the game's best individuals at the ball-up.

“With the new centre bounce rule, the scoring has gone up out of the middle, it’s more fun and it looks better,” Simpson told SEN Whateley.

“I think there are some clubs that have won games off the back of the new ruck change in the middle.


Pittonet rated higher than Witts is a surprise, but stats don't lie.

Quote:
10. Lloyd Meek + Ned Reeves (Hawthorn)
“What is interesting – would you rather one (elite) ruckman, or two ruckmen like Hawthorn?

“Reeves and Meek combine for the same stats as a Jackson. I think it’s horses for courses if you’re Reeves or Meek. If you need some hit outs, get Reeves in. If you need some grunt, get Meek in.

“It seems to be a good combination, and I think they might stick with that.”

9. Darcy Cameron + Oscar Steene (Collingwood)
“The other one is Darcy Cameron and Oscar Steene. It’s like it’s a last quarter, ‘go’. Last quarter, let’s get in Steene and try to jump your way into a win.”

8. Jordon Sweet (Port Adelaide)
7. Jarrod Witts (Gold Coast)
“Witts is an interesting one. I think he’s dropped away a little bit from last year.”

6. Mark Pittonet (Carlton)
5. Tim English (Western Bulldogs)
“English just sits out of that top four.

“As much as we think he is important for the Bulldogs, his numbers aren’t in the top four.”

4. Tristan Xerri (North Melbourne)
3. Brodie Grundy (Sydney)
2. Max Gawn (Melbourne)
“He’s averaging 20-odd disposals, 14 hit outs to advantage, 15 contested possessions, four marks, six clearances and six score involvements.”

1. Luke Jackson (Fremantle)
“19 disposals, 17 hit outs to advantage, contested possessions, he’s at 11. Four marks, five clearances and seven score involvements. He is having a great year.

“Imagine (he and Max Gawn) were still together!

“(The top four) are all averaging close to 20 possessions, hit outs to advantage are all above 12, they are all above 15 contested possessions, they are all getting above five clearances and they’re all getting above four score involvements.

“They are game-changing stats from a position on the ground that you can’t fix.”


Gawn - Jackson combo was formidable. They won a Premiership together in 2021 when Jackson was only 20yo. Jackson turned the game when he went in the ruck to give them a different look. Gawn has reach (rucks dont get smaller with age), and Jackson has the springy high jump.

However Gawn and Grundy didnt quite work out because Gawn was still the best ruck in the AFL, and the only forward of the two.

For us, it looks to be Pittonet and Young as our best combo, with Young playing FF line/ bench when not rucking. Reidy let him and the team down badly vs Grundy and last game vs TDK and Marshall, ball watching.

We need a new No 1 ruck!

In the meantime, whilst OKeefe develops, Harry can be the Fwd- Ruck given Harry isn't marking and kicking goals in the forwardline. If its just getting the ball to the ground, Lewis Young can do that too. Maybe we need both Harry and Lewis in the forwardline against taller defences like Freo and Brizzy.

We are in a pickle. Pitto is on the decline in his career. IMO we need better next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 9:36 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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TAFKA BamBam7 wrote:
I'd love to see Young as our Ruck-Forward.

Send H down back with Weiters. If they can't sort out opposition key forwards between the two of them... Well, let's hope it doesn't get to that stage.


Its been said a few times sending Harry to CHB. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

We are expecting O'Farrell back in the 2nd half season (unless they see a great target for a MSD pick and put HOF on ice for rest of 2026). Next year, if Weiters is still with us :roll: , and he should be he'll have two dependable KPDs of the future, Dean and OFarrell as his tall team mates down back. Should be a great combo.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 9:46 am 
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Wayne Johnston
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bondiblue wrote:
TAFKA BamBam7 wrote:
I'd love to see Young as our Ruck-Forward.

Send H down back with Weiters. If they can't sort out opposition key forwards between the two of them... Well, let's hope it doesn't get to that stage.


Its been said a few times sending Harry to CHB. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

We are expecting O'Farrell back in the 2nd half season (unless they see a great target for a MSD pick and put HOF on ice for rest of 2026). Next year, if Weiters is still with us :roll: , and he should be he'll have two dependable KPDs of the future, Dean and OFarrell as his tall team mates down back. Should be a great combo.

Don't like to go the early crow on young players but I reckon Dean and O"Farrell will make it . I"m with you on these two Bondi .

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 12:44 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:04 pm
Posts: 8982
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bondiblue wrote:
TAFKA BamBam7 wrote:
I'd love to see Young as our Ruck-Forward.

Send H down back with Weiters. If they can't sort out opposition key forwards between the two of them... Well, let's hope it doesn't get to that stage.


Its been said a few times sending Harry to CHB. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

We are expecting O'Farrell back in the 2nd half season (unless they see a great target for a MSD pick and put HOF on ice for rest of 2026). Next year, if Weiters is still with us :roll: , and he should be he'll have two dependable KPDs of the future, Dean and OFarrell as his tall team mates down back. Should be a great combo.

The only appeal with Harry to CHB is that it’ll be another very public execution.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 12:49 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Crusader wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
TAFKA BamBam7 wrote:
I'd love to see Young as our Ruck-Forward.

Send H down back with Weiters. If they can't sort out opposition key forwards between the two of them... Well, let's hope it doesn't get to that stage.


Its been said a few times sending Harry to CHB. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

We are expecting O'Farrell back in the 2nd half season (unless they see a great target for a MSD pick and put HOF on ice for rest of 2026). Next year, if Weiters is still with us :roll: , and he should be he'll have two dependable KPDs of the future, Dean and OFarrell as his tall team mates down back. Should be a great combo.

The only appeal with Harry to CHB is that it’ll be another very public execution.


Is Harry untouchable? Too sensitive? Is he damaged goods? Doesnt he want to play for my club to win?

Whatever is going on with Harry, fkn find out what it is and if identified as damaged goods, trade him to some team who can fix him.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2026 2:29 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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I remember the day we played Wayne Johnston at fullback. We did get a big change out of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2026 9:44 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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2 of the 9 things we learned is a good ruck and a jumping ruck is GOLD with the new CB ruck rule

Pittonet played 74% Game time against Sweet vs Port, and that's his best effort in 2 years. He usually plays 64% GT, but effective for only 60%. If he gets injured, we are in trouble next year.

Harry as the chop out has been great for hi and the team, as many posters expected, but when he's not in the forward line Gov and Kemp are not your classic KPF's, and Gov is 33yo in 2027. Gov looks primed to earn a one year deal for 2027, but then he may not even be on our list.

Quote:
Cats' ruck combo quells Grundy's influence
Brodie Grundy was in stellar form heading into Saturday's game against Geelong. The Swans ruck was named best on ground the previous week and led the competition for hitouts. It would have been easy for young 20-year-old Mitch Edwards, in his ninth game, to be overwhelmed by his more seasoned opponent. But Edwards not only held his own, the combination with Mark Blicavs, Shannon Neale and Sam De Koning dulled Grundy's influence, with their athleticism key to the 39-33 hitout advantage. "We rarely think about it as a one-on-one match-up with our ruckman … given the different players we have in our team that can sort of help within that role," Cats coach Chris Scott said post-match. "In a way, it was kind of all of our guys versus Brodie." And on Saturday, all the Cats' guys won. - Phoebe McWilliams


Quote:
Eagles ruck hits career-best form
Bailey Williams started the season playing practice matches in the WAFL, but since being recalled to replace Matt Flynn in round five, the Victorian has made a statement. After producing the best performance of his career last weekend to earn eight coaches' votes, the Eagles ruckman starred again on Saturday. This time, Williams registered the highest-rated game of his career against Darcy Cameron, after amassing 28 hitouts, 20 disposals, 12 clearances, two goal assists and a goal to help his side beat Collingwood at clearances and out of the middle. Williams is the No.1-rated ruck across the past three rounds and is rising. - Josh Gabelich


https://www.afl.com.au/news/1522973/nine-things-we-learned-leave-this-young-dockers-star-loose-at-your-peril

Lets find one for next year, whilst O'Keefe develops. I'd like us to pick Flynn Riley in Tuesdays MSD as a developing ruck who goes Ok iat CB, and will hit his straps by 2028 imo, or find a left field ruck from the State Leagues....not just anyone, like Reidy who looks weak in CBs.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2026 12:55 am 
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Wayne Johnston

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I wouldn’t shit the bed for an 11 gamer.

Just saying, we might try and get to the bottom of why Reidy is playing like a big girl’s blouse.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Mon May 25, 2026 10:58 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Crusader wrote:
I wouldn’t shit the bed for an 11 gamer.

Just saying, we might try and get to the bottom of why Reidy is playing like a big girl’s blouse.


Better work that out before we do shit the bed. Waiting for Reidy to morph into a jumping ruck is fools gold.

What I'm pointing out is that all the good teams have a reliable No 1 ruck. Pitto did well vs Sweet, but has fatigued against 2 ruckmen or fitter ruckmen. The cost is 4 points every game we lose it in the middle. Freaks me out to think of what happens when the inevitable happens: Pitto is injured.

I've seen us neglect or fail our management of the ruck position, to our detriment for a decades.

Post Matty Allan, it all fell apart. Cain Ackland. Say no more.

Then the Messiah came after winning the Kreuzer Cup. Kreuzer went down with an ACL. Warnock couldn't ruck with the shoulder. Jacobs left to become an AA, and it was all left to our FF, Shaun Hampson, the athlete to supply Judd.

Since then we waited for TDK to develop over 7 years and hoped fill in ruck Pitto stayed fit. He didnt. TDK became our No 1 ruck and developed, and like Jacob, the bird in the hand is gone. Leaving us with our No 2 ruckman to carry the mantle.

New ruck rules are now in place. They do not suit Pitto. We haven't replaced our No 1 ruck to play to the new rules.

Shitting the bed? Worse than that. Shits me no end we got Reidy who doesn't like contact to replace Pitto. Cain Ackland was like that too. You think we could get to the bottom of the problem and change Ackland? Reidy is lumbering, Pitto like. He aint the answer to the new rules.He can't jump. He cant morph that quality.

Pitto is at a such a huge disadvantage from the get go with new ruck rules that he gives away more ruck free kicks than what, seems all the No 1 rucks combined do. Its not fair to expect him to jump when he cant, and that applies to Reidy. I prefer Pitto as our No 2 than Reidy.

Speaking of unfair. Our mids deserve a ruckman who can jump at CB to give them a fair chance at CB. Lat 2 weeks wins have come against weak rucks at CB.

I hope List Mgt have a plan to fix this, because the temporary coach (who happens to be a prototype mobile ruckman selected with pick 1) has got more pressing issues than list mgt.

I'll be interested to see how Pitto goes against the 11 gamer, and his support crew. I'll get back to you on that.

Meanwhile, we have an opportunity to get ourselves a developing ruck tomorrow's MSD. Fingers crossed because he's sitting right under our noses, and is much better than Reidy.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2026 7:30 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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bondiblue wrote:
Crusader wrote:
I wouldn’t shit the bed for an 11 gamer.

Just saying, we might try and get to the bottom of why Reidy is playing like a big girl’s blouse.


Better work that out before we do shit the bed. Waiting for Reidy to morph into a jumping ruck is fools gold.

What I'm pointing out is that all the good teams have a reliable No 1 ruck. Pitto did well vs Sweet, but has fatigued against 2 ruckmen or fitter ruckmen. The cost is 4 points every game we lose it in the middle. Freaks me out to think of what happens when the inevitable happens: Pitto is injured.

I've seen us neglect or fail our management of the ruck position, to our detriment for a decades.

Post Matty Allan, it all fell apart. Cain Ackland. Say no more.

Then the Messiah came after winning the Kreuzer Cup. Kreuzer went down with an ACL. Warnock couldn't ruck with the shoulder. Jacobs left to become an AA, and it was all left to our FF, Shaun Hampson, the athlete to supply Judd.

Since then we waited for TDK to develop over 7 years and hoped fill in ruck Pitto stayed fit. He didnt. TDK became our No 1 ruck and developed, and like Jacob, the bird in the hand is gone. Leaving us with our No 2 ruckman to carry the mantle.

New ruck rules are now in place. They do not suit Pitto. We haven't replaced our No 1 ruck to play to the new rules.

Shitting the bed? Worse than that. Shits me no end we got Reidy who doesn't like contact to replace Pitto. Cain Ackland was like that too. You think we could get to the bottom of the problem and change Ackland? Reidy is lumbering, Pitto like. He aint the answer to the new rules.He can't jump. He cant morph that quality.

Pitto is at a such a huge disadvantage from the get go with new ruck rules that he gives away more ruck free kicks than what, seems all the No 1 rucks combined do. Its not fair to expect him to jump when he cant, and that applies to Reidy. I prefer Pitto as our No 2 than Reidy.

Speaking of unfair. Our mids deserve a ruckman who can jump at CB to give them a fair chance at CB. Lat 2 weeks wins have come against weak rucks at CB.

I hope List Mgt have a plan to fix this, because the temporary coach (who happens to be a prototype mobile ruckman selected with pick 1) has got more pressing issues than list mgt.

I'll be interested to see how Pitto goes against the 11 gamer, and his support crew. I'll get back to you on that.

Meanwhile, we have an opportunity to get ourselves a developing ruck tomorrow's MSD. Fingers crossed because he's sitting right under our noses, and is much better than Reidy.


At 206cm he's certainly isn't sitting under my nose but glad we got him

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 Post subject: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2026 12:38 am 
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Bruce Doull
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Same height as Warnock, who was a very good ruckman

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2026 9:36 am 
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Robert Walls

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So we traded for reidy who is a disappointment, and only through an injury did we pick a ruck who was already in our vfl team??? The bits I've seen of Flynn, he will be better than reidy in no time at all. While I am gutted for Carroll, we would have missed out without the injury

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2026 5:40 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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The extended interchange bench and new ruck rules have turned the 2 rucks debate on its head.

Prior to this year there were a handful of clubs running with 2 rucks, I should say, two good rucks, preferably both adept to playing a role forward.

Recent testing in the US for players keen to follow Mason Cox into the AFL, has one candidate 235cm tall. Maybe another reason for the interest in AFL is the increased numbers of Aussies recruited as kickers for Gridiron, aka Football in the US.

Now have a look what the Tigers have landed.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1528602/patrick-carr-richmond-tigers-the-man-who-could-be-the-tallest-player-in-vflafl-history

Weapon. Has 7cm on our new ruck 210 recruit Flynn Riley.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2026 9:50 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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bondiblue wrote:
Recent testing in the US for players keen to follow Mason Cox into the AFL, has one candidate 235cm tall. .


Is that a typo? Because that's 7'8.5" in old money, making him taller than anyone who's ever played in the NBA. Surely you couldn't handle AFL at that height.


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 Post subject: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2026 10:42 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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It's Trump isn't it? He's always claiming to be taller than he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2026 10:59 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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GreatEx wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
Recent testing in the US for players keen to follow Mason Cox into the AFL, has one candidate 235cm tall. .


Is that a typo? Because that's 7'8.5" in old money, making him taller than anyone who's ever played in the NBA. Surely you couldn't handle AFL at that height.


The article I read was in reference to those who are trialling in the USA, and it read 235cm

PS check your PM

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2026 11:01 am 
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Stephen Silvagni

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bluehammer wrote:
It's Trump isn't it? He's always claiming to be taller than he is.


Stormy Daniels admitted he was a small man. Smaller than he'd like us to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Ruck debate
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2026 8:21 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I did some sleuthing, tallest player referenced was a 223cm (7'4") prospect from Utah:
https://www.afl.com.au/news/1518334


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