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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:36 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Outback Blue wrote:
I've always said.....when Chris Scott got the coaching job at Geelong in 2011....

You could've thrown anyone in that position......and they were always going to win a premiership...

Thats how good that playing group was !!!

Sent from my SM-G996B using Tapatalk


Rewriting history, theyd just lost Ablett and a lot of people thought they were on the wane when he took over.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:46 am 
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Geoff Southby

Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:14 pm
Posts: 5991
Location: Melbourne
Cazzesman wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
what makes a coach successful?


The answer is simple.

Two words.........................'One Agenda!'

Sadly we will never see that again. Carlton Football club has barely had one Agenda since about 1995 and getting everyone on the same page is simply not possible from here on in.

Being Capt Obvious, blind Freddy can see the entire World is fast devolving into an Agenda's driven society, on every level. I have 8 staff directly under me. Every phone call I get from them tends to be some subtle form of manipulation or an attempt to plant a seed for their own ends. After so many years with them I can read their Agenda's like a cheap novel.

Covid, Politics, Media, Social Media, Big Tech, Lift, Right. etc, etc, etc. It is all about 'I'm right you are wrong and how can I make money by taking a certain side or stance.'

Carlton FC is simply a microcosm of the World over the past 30 years. Having a personal Agenda and being selfish is the norm at most Football clubs. The Agenda's and cliques go on infinitum and I have seen them up close and personal for 11 years. 5 years since I finished, there are still plenty going on and things are obviously broken.

Carlton FC is so far away from having a single glorified Agenda, that hoping for a flag is like hoping to win Tatts.

For every CFC Board Member, there are 10 of their friends trying to influence them with their own selfish Agenda's. Some of the friends have real clout so the Agenda's get traction.

The World is pretty well @#$%^& so why should we expect CFC to be any better. People in Power, with Money are the pinnacle of the Agenda driven society.

I'm wondering if this is merely Lockdown 6.0 talking..............but tell me I am wrong and why.

Regards Cazzesman


I think it is a bit of lockdown talking, as by this logic wouldn’t it be impossible for any club to be aligned?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:55 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:08 pm
Posts: 17013
Location: Melbourne
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
what makes a coach successful?


The answer is simple.

Two words.........................'One Agenda!'

Sadly we will never see that again. Carlton Football club has barely had one Agenda since about 1995 and getting everyone on the same page is simply not possible from here on in.

Being Capt Obvious, blind Freddy can see the entire World is fast devolving into an Agenda's driven society, on every level. I have 8 staff directly under me. Every phone call I get from them tends to be some subtle form of manipulation or an attempt to plant a seed for their own ends. After so many years with them I can read their Agenda's like a cheap novel.

Covid, Politics, Media, Social Media, Big Tech, Lift, Right. etc, etc, etc. It is all about 'I'm right you are wrong and how can I make money by taking a certain side or stance.'

Carlton FC is simply a microcosm of the World over the past 30 years. Having a personal Agenda and being selfish is the norm at most Football clubs. The Agenda's and cliques go on infinitum and I have seen them up close and personal for 11 years. 5 years since I finished, there are still plenty going on and things are obviously broken.

Carlton FC is so far away from having a single glorified Agenda, that hoping for a flag is like hoping to win Tatts.

For every CFC Board Member, there are 10 of their friends trying to influence them with their own selfish Agenda's. Some of the friends have real clout so the Agenda's get traction.

The World is pretty well @#$%^& so why should we expect CFC to be any better. People in Power, with Money are the pinnacle of the Agenda driven society.

I'm wondering if this is merely Lockdown 6.0 talking..............but tell me I am wrong and why.

Regards Cazzesman


I think it is a bit of lockdown talking, as by this logic wouldn’t it be impossible for any club to be aligned?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think in any given year there are probably 3 or 4 that are closest to being aligned and the rest just make up the numbers. :smoking:

Sustained success is based on the consistency of alignments, avoidance of scandal and a very large slice of good old fashion luck i.e. fixturing,
injuries (duration) and suspensions to your top 10 players, refusing to bow to knee jerk reactions when issues arise, media support/love and supporter harmony which is always driven by 'W'.

Regards Cazzesman

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:01 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6468
Cazzesman wrote:
Adam Chatfield wrote:
Cazzesman wrote:
jamespul65 wrote:
what makes a coach successful?


The answer is simple.

Two words.........................'One Agenda!'

Sadly we will never see that again. Carlton Football club has barely had one Agenda since about 1995 and getting everyone on the same page is simply not possible from here on in.

Being Capt Obvious, blind Freddy can see the entire World is fast devolving into an Agenda's driven society, on every level. I have 8 staff directly under me. Every phone call I get from them tends to be some subtle form of manipulation or an attempt to plant a seed for their own ends. After so many years with them I can read their Agenda's like a cheap novel.

Covid, Politics, Media, Social Media, Big Tech, Lift, Right. etc, etc, etc. It is all about 'I'm right you are wrong and how can I make money by taking a certain side or stance.'

Carlton FC is simply a microcosm of the World over the past 30 years. Having a personal Agenda and being selfish is the norm at most Football clubs. The Agenda's and cliques go on infinitum and I have seen them up close and personal for 11 years. 5 years since I finished, there are still plenty going on and things are obviously broken.

Carlton FC is so far away from having a single glorified Agenda, that hoping for a flag is like hoping to win Tatts.

For every CFC Board Member, there are 10 of their friends trying to influence them with their own selfish Agenda's. Some of the friends have real clout so the Agenda's get traction.

The World is pretty well @#$%^& so why should we expect CFC to be any better. People in Power, with Money are the pinnacle of the Agenda driven society.

I'm wondering if this is merely Lockdown 6.0 talking..............but tell me I am wrong and why.

Regards Cazzesman


I think it is a bit of lockdown talking, as by this logic wouldn’t it be impossible for any club to be aligned?


:lol: :lol: :lol:

I think in any given year there are probably 3 or 4 that are closest to being aligned and the rest just make up the numbers. :smoking:

Sustained success is based on the consistency of alignments, avoidance of scandal and a very large slice of good old fashion luck i.e. fixturing,
injuries (duration) and suspensions to your top 10 players, refusing to bow to knee jerk reactions when issues arise, media support/love and supporter harmony which is always driven by 'W'.

Regards Cazzesman


Leadership at the top
Have that everything else follows
We don’t have that
Only a fool would deny that in relation to the CFC


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Posts: 6830
Sooooo.....if the board gets overthrown as per Walsh comments and Teague stays.
I think we need to prepare ourselves for a new overpaid Adelaide recruit. :lol:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/662812/adelaide-refusing-to-guarantee-return-of-disgraced-walker


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:27 pm 
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Banned

Joined: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Posts: 2333
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:32 pm 
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Craig Bradley

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 6:36 am
Posts: 6468
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


Mostly Walshy
I feel things are starting to change a bit


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:53 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
keogh wrote:
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


Mostly Walshy
I feel things are starting to change a bit

No matter which board is there, Teague won’t be coaching

And that’s only the beginning...

As my 22 year old son said to me today that he can’t believe we lost to gc , what was the point of sacking Bolton( now with Teague going) , and are we ever going to come good ??

Answer , one day but who knows when that one day is

Dees been waiting since the 1950’s
Swans had to wait 72 years
Dogs had to wait 70 years
We are now in the top 4 for premiership droughts ...

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:03 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
azzablue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


Mostly Walshy
I feel things are starting to change a bit

No matter which board is there, Teague won’t be coaching

And that’s only the beginning...

As my 22 year old son said to me today that he can’t believe we lost to gc , what was the point of sacking Bolton( now with Teague going) , and are we ever going to come good ??

Answer , one day but who knows when that one day is

Dees been waiting since the 1950’s
Swans had to wait 72 years
Dogs had to wait 70 years
We are now in the top 4 for premiership droughts ...


If we ever do due diligence when appointing a new coach maybe we will eventually get it right.

That's what's got us into this mess.
That and taking a white knight approach.

I'm not saying Clarkson isn't a white knight.
But let's at least make sure we grill him to be sure he is,.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:26 pm
Posts: 4719
Location: Parliament House, Canberra
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


I thought it was the pea hearted [sic] midfield? Who on the board plays midfield?

According to you, Teague is immaculate, sinless and perfect like Jesus.

Theologically and footballically, I think you’ll find that’s not right.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
WOW wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
WOW wrote:
bondiblue wrote:
jim wrote:

The culture has been shocking in this club for 20 years. 6 coaches haven't changed that. The motivation, drive, hunger, effort etc, nothing has changed with different coaching appointments. How do you not see that? What does that tell you? You can't coach a side with a bad culture. Whatever you try to do the players don't put in the effort to execute it properly. Given we were still in contention and very competitive all year on the scoreboard, if we put in a true effort in all year of course we would play finals. Like i said, how do you not see that. What do you think another coaching change is going to do that the previous 5 or 6 haven't? Have to get to the root of the problem and it isn't coaching. Teague's record is the 2nd best this century by a margin. He took over a side that had won 4 from the previous 43, with some of the most embarrassing losses this club has ever had, including one where a side outscored us 7 goals to 1 in a qtr with 16 men for alot if it.


You're kidding jim

Focus on this year, and you'll get your answers.

Stop trying to make a connection between 2000 and 2021. Its the now we are interested in, not conspiracy theories. You're making excuses. Put the spotlight on our current coach...every other coach has lived with covid and bubbles.

And comparing Teague to the previous unsuccessful Carlton coaches ....why not compare him to other coaches who have won flags, to see the difference between his game plan and there's, even better, make it easier, coaches who haven't won a flag: Rutten, or Fagan, or Leon Cameron, or Goodwin, and look at what their teams are doing THIS year.

Best comparison is Rutten. Took over a team hovering around us, and he's only been in the game 2 years....see the difference?

Teague let the players get ahead of themselves last week. His disclosures after the match were truthful and focussed on the 2021 problem. He doesn't dwell on the past. He's allowed the 2021 players to run the show.

I love you man, but Stop the excuses


Changing the coach won’t suddenly make us a top 4 side. The club has bigger issues. No doubt the last 20 years is still impacting the club. It has a poor and losing culture that stems from that period. The recent decisions in recruiting Betts and prolonging Murphy’s career, is a clear indication we have lost our way.

Saying that, Teague is out of his depth and should be replaced.


Top 4 !!!!! Who said that?
Now we are dreaming.

One day we will, but Finals should have been possible, even this year with all the injuries. We have shown no improvement since Teague came along other than not losing by huge margins. On the other had, Teague has given us "Teague's gift", which is more than a coach killer, its a game loser. Nothing to do with our past. We have rebuilt the list. We have quality on each line.

I believe a better coach, an uncompromising one with high standards the players would understand, and an understanding of the opposition's plans, would do better than the current coach Teague.

Losing mentality is accepted by the coach of the day. Hence today's problem. Get a smart disciplined coach who loves his players but isn't their best mate to coach and that will change the culture.

Agree about Murphy, not Betts. Betts has been our best forward after Harry this year, and still our best small forward, and he didn't cost us anything, and still doesn't.

Nah, the problem is now, and right in front of us, for all to see.


Betts did cost us something. Further development of a younger player eg Honey. Betts was cooked 3 years ago.

Of course the problem is now. Like it was yesterday, day before that, last 10 years etc. No doubt our inability to win games of football has had a huge impact on the club and it’s culture.

Also, not disagreeing with your assessment of Teague. My point is the club has bigger issues than Teague.


Fair comment.

There's always a cost/ benefit .

I don't disagree, but I love Betts and what he's brought to the team these last 3 years.

The coach / MC decided to have a midget forward line with Betts Fisher Owies and Murphy. One of them did take the opportunity for the medium forward with pace to burn...and I wouldn't have said it was Betts, but I get your point. The same selectors also decided to rush back a medium sized Martin who wasnt fit enough.

Teague had his chances to play Honey, when he was knocking down the door before his recent opportunity.

Doesn't make your point wrong though.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:36 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Blue Vain wrote:
CarltonClem wrote:
Walsh, at the risk of an exercise of futility, why don’t you outline from a coaching point of view how Teague has succeeded?

You want to blame the purportedly pea hearted midfield? Why hasn’t Teague done something about that in terms of selection criteria/non favouritism?

Our defenders get caught time and again because the zone defence we employ is picked apart. It seems you want to excoriate the players solely and Teague unable to do anything wrong.

You seem to ignore the criticism relating to Teague’s inability to formulate proper systems and have yet to come up with a satisfactory rebuttal.

Going ad hominem doesn’t really help.


I've morphed into Daryl Kerrigan after reading that....


I've met Clem, and I think he still lives around the corner from me. We've been meaning to catch up. If he talks like that when we catch up, I'm bringing my ipad and have the google page ready to go. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:37 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:23 am
Posts: 1566
Paddycripps wrote:
azzablue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


Mostly Walshy
I feel things are starting to change a bit

No matter which board is there, Teague won’t be coaching

And that’s only the beginning...

As my 22 year old son said to me today that he can’t believe we lost to gc , what was the point of sacking Bolton( now with Teague going) , and are we ever going to come good ??

Answer , one day but who knows when that one day is

Dees been waiting since the 1950’s
Swans had to wait 72 years
Dogs had to wait 70 years
We are now in the top 4 for premiership droughts ...


If we ever do due diligence when appointing a new coach maybe we will eventually get it right.

That's what's got us into this mess.
That and taking a white knight approach.

I'm not saying Clarkson isn't a white knight.
But let's at least make sure we grill him to be sure he is,.

Absolutely agree with that !! But that’s Carlton evolving into a professional modern club ,,,can’t see that happening anytime soon !!

Board level it’s all smoke and mirrors , with no transparency

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:43 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
17th Premiership wrote:
azzablue wrote:
And on top of all this Neil Mitchell is reporting that Teague is gone and the fact the Tom (I know nothing and I’m lucky I have powerful media dad ) Browne is denying it !

Spells even more trouble for Teague


A-ha! I never realised who his dad is! I'm so naive!
The proof for me is that all the remaining ex-players and commentators in the media who would normally be supporting Teague have turned over the past week, obviously indicating they know.

He was on shaky ground in any event but his last - albeit very small- hope was to at least string together wins against the weaker opponents we've faced in the past few weeks but losing to the Kangaroos and now Gold Coast have put paid to that final slim chance.


If the players perform like they did for Teague, when his neck was on the line, for the new coach, those players will be exposed as VFL players, and will be signing their death notice as AFL players.

If that proves to be the case, Teague looks better for it, and SOS...well, the strategy to strip the club back to the bone, will be considered as a fanciful choice, and the his reputation as a list manager, along with his team of recruiters as failures. But GWS will be thankful to SOS for taking players they wanted to discard eventually, but will blame SOS for the deal because, because he blinked first.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
GWS wrote:
azzablue wrote:
I think we need to start to get around Walsh , his head is going to explode when Teague goes ...


Probably smarter to keep clear I would have thought. Who wants to be covered in mush?

But yes, barass’s mail is usually on the money.


Well there you go.

Really Really interested?

or is it an Alan Bond moment: an offer he can't refuse?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:19 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
CarltonClem wrote:
Walsh wrote:

Well if you think the midfield isn't pea hearted and good enough then that's your opinion.

They will never collectively be able to compete in clearances against top eight sides. I think the stats prove it and I don't think it's fair to depend on Cripps and Walsh

SPS, Dow, LOB, Fisher are not good enough.


The midfield weren't pea hearted against St Kilda were they? Yes we have a personnel issue in midfield but for you to ignore that part of the issue is a coaching problem, and more particularly, a development problem undermines any argument you might want to make.

I have serious questions over their development. Unfortunately, that comes back to the coach. It's up to the coach not enforcing standards and letting passengers take up privileged positions. If it's ok for a senior player to go half-in, then it's ok for a junior. Why play a guy like Murphy when he wasn't showing any form and there were kids banging the door down in the Magoos? Setterfield getting games when he was playing very poorly for weeks in a row.

Then we haven't even touched on the way our team defence was handled. We were rightly lambasted by commentators. Far too loose, not understanding the "stand" rule and the quicker ball movement meaning that a zone defence unless, absolutely well drilled that reacts within split seconds means we were getting belted on the rebound. Sure we butchered the ball at times, but the system being played cannot rely on perfection. Where is the insurance policy if the ball is turned over? There was none.

There are players with talent here. A coach is supposed to get the best out of them. I don't think David has. I'm sure he's a nice guy and he wants the best for the club. He was originally recruited as an assistant and fell into the head coach position mainly through player power, a coach who didn't crack the whip hard enough but very likeable.

We need someone tough but fair. Malthouse was seemingly tough but unfair. We need a coach who will give us a culture shift but who is tactically savvy and/or has assistants who can handle that part of it. How many of our assistants are talked about for being in the mix for roles elsewhere? If they are tactically savvy and have been shot down by a decision by the head coach, then there's another problem there.

Where am I going with this? The problem is multi-faceted. To simply blame the players as being pea hearted is reductionist and fails to consider the nuances and issues that plague this club at the moment.


Hey Clem, you can talk like that when we do have coffee ... Pacific?

Great post.

Problem is multi faceted.

No doubt the players, including the midfield had a dip vs StKilda...50 or more tackles in a half.

Club can't allow this behavioural pattern to continue. It's the coach whose wings is always clipped in this situation. Nothing personal. Law of the jungle for all coaches. Have to get the coach right first. In the meantime, list managers, coaches and supporters know exactly which players will be delisted or traded. The only difference amongst posters is the order of the delisted

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:20 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
Paddycripps wrote:
Walsh wrote:
Yes they were pea hearted in every game this year.

If we are getting smashed in clearances its not set up its personel.

You actually expect this inconsistent pea hearted group to compete against top eight sides?

The midfield dictates the required effort for the rest of the side and if you want to stop complaining about effort then we need players that provide it unconditionally.

Nothing to do with development - there are some five development coaches + five senior coaches. If they all say the same thing and playr isn't responding then ta ta.


Man you are going to get bruises on your fingertips soon. You're a posting machine.


I appreciate Walshy's POV.
He's right in part.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:25 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick

Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 4435
azzablue wrote:
Paddycripps wrote:
azzablue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


Mostly Walshy
I feel things are starting to change a bit

No matter which board is there, Teague won’t be coaching

And that’s only the beginning...

As my 22 year old son said to me today that he can’t believe we lost to gc , what was the point of sacking Bolton( now with Teague going) , and are we ever going to come good ??

Answer , one day but who knows when that one day is

Dees been waiting since the 1950’s
Swans had to wait 72 years
Dogs had to wait 70 years
We are now in the top 4 for premiership droughts ...


If we ever do due diligence when appointing a new coach maybe we will eventually get it right.

That's what's got us into this mess.
That and taking a white knight approach.

I'm not saying Clarkson isn't a white knight.
But let's at least make sure we grill him to be sure he is,.

Absolutely agree with that !! But that’s Carlton evolving into a professional modern club ,,,can’t see that happening anytime soon !!

Board level it’s all smoke and mirrors , with no transparency


Picture Jack Elliot looking in the mirror smoking a fag


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:32 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25659
Location: Bondi Beach
azzablue wrote:
keogh wrote:
Walsh wrote:
It's not about Teague its about the boards incompetence.


Mostly Walshy
I feel things are starting to change a bit

No matter which board is there, Teague won’t be coaching

And that’s only the beginning...

As my 22 year old son said to me today that he can’t believe we lost to gc , what was the point of sacking Bolton( now with Teague going) , and are we ever going to come good ??

Answer , one day but who knows when that one day is

Dees been waiting since the 1950’s
Swans had to wait 72 years
Dogs had to wait 70 years
We are now in the top 4 for premiership droughts ...


... which implies we are getting closer to the Holy Grail.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 7:00 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8229
BREAKING: David Teague’s uncertain relationships with senior players will be one of the many elements of a review that's expected to see him moved on as coach.
The board will consider the contents of the review Thursday, with Teague’s future already all but decided.
Jon Ralph: "While the review has not officially been tabled, Carlton’s issues are well known inside the club & will see Teague moved on.
While there were early indications he could be informed as soon as Friday, circumstances at the club are expected to delay any announcement."
Jon Ralph: "The tensions of a long year of scrutiny have taken their toll on the coach & the playing group.
Some senior players at Carlton believe their inability to form close relationships with Teague is just one of many factors that have contributed to a below-par year."
Jon Ralph: "Teague was initially seen as a strong relationship builder especially when he replaced sacked coach Brendon Bolton during 2019.
But as the Blues have battled for wins Teague's been increasingly demanding of his players who at times believe he's been overly negative."
Jon Ralph: "Carlton is adamant it has not told Teague about his future & has not yet contacted rival suitors for his role.
While the review will consider positions across the board fitness boss Andrew Russell, on over $400,000 a season, is expected to stay on next season."
Source - Jon Ralph
Posted by Carlton News, Info & Stats from article in HS.


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