3 years ago it seemed more important to not lose to Collingwood.

3 years ago we were a proud club with a proud history.

Today we still have our proud history, although that is now heavily tarnished with what will this year become our 2nd ever wooden spoon and our 2nd in 3 years.

But the way I see it we are no longer a proud club. We have been forced to become the whores of the AFL. Totally debasing and humiliating ourselves in the hope that our pimp will give us a big enough cut to one day drag ourselves out of the gutter.

Do we keep our pride and let the kids (the supporters) go hungry? or do we sacrifice our dignity in the hope of one day returning to society as an honest citizen?

What a bitch of an era this is for the CFC...

John I'll gladly spill beer on anyone So we'll take that as a date - mind you I hope I spill the beer but my teeth don;t drop out at the same time, and then the walking stick is lost and....shit this 17th better come quick!

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Danny, I'll lock you in then.

Josh, I don't want to lose. And for the last five or so years I've been so dead against the system that rewards, not mediocrity as so many put it, but utter atrociousness, that I didn't want to know about picks.

I wanted our club to find its own way, to somehow turn the system against itself and succeed in its own way.

But I've know come to the understanding (and this is a personal thing) that the system is so carefully constructed, and so difficult to subvert, that trying to succeed outside the system is an extremely difficult, almost impossible, task.

Especially for a club that was almost fatally weakened by years of Elliot hubris, as we were.

So no, I don't want to lose. But I feel that we must, for all the reasons that so many have already outlined.

But make no mistake, it hurts. Not as much as it should perhaps, because I've numbed myself to this season now. I figure if the AFL wants to strip tribal passion from the game (how token their pathetically corporate 'rivalry weekend' is - wankers) then I'm only too happy to oblige.

Starting 2006 with a clean slate, a rejuvenated list and fresh hope is all I'm looking forward to now.

It's a pity, but there it is.

And sorry about my drunken rant and the heinous crime of using all those caps.

so John you'd agree it is deliberate?

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Not as such. But I do think that the death of tribalism and its associated passion is a direct consequence of the AFL's deliberate policy of corporatisation of the game.

In many ways, it all changed when the competition went national. Then along came big dollars from tv rights. Ground rationalisation because the AFL wanted everything shiny and slick and 'world's best practice'.

The AFL as an organisation is centralist. Not content with letting the clubs determine their own destiny (probably because most clubs had proven their complete inability to do just that) they took it out of the clubs hands with the draft and the cap.

Once upon a time, Carlton was Carlton and Collingwood was Collingwood and they played each other as part of a broader competition, but that competition was not much more than a structure.

Now Carlton and Collingwood are each 1/16th of a Franchise operation, just like McDonalds. The clubs are a part of something much bigger than themselves. But unfortunately, it all feels a bit sterile and artificial.

Once we were Carlton. In our culture and practices we stood alone. Now we're Carlton, One of the AFL's 16 Clubs. And the less unilaterally we make decisions, the harder it is to retain our sense of uniqueness.

Is this Good or Bad? The answer is probably where so many answers inevitably lay: it's a bit of both, with some grey areas thrown in for good measure.

Change is always bad until it proves itself to be good. And sometimes, change just flowers things up forever.

So here's the challenge for all of us blueboys and bluegirls, for Collo and the supporters alike:

How do we maintain our culture, so wonderfully constructed over a century of great history without losing relevance to the world as it stands in the 21st Century?

How do we stay Old Carlton in the hearts of Carlton people, yet compete successfully as New Carlton in the shiny corporatised AFL?

If I was on the board, this would be the key issue for me. I hope it is for them.

I think the answer might be you do it by playing each game on its merits, by always striving to win, by taking the whacks and getting on with it by focusing once again on the game rather than on the prize.

If we as a club continue to harp on about only the prize matters I think we are as done as a dead dog's dinner! (whatever that means).

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

John you dont rediscover culture by wanting to lose. Thats playing into the hands of the system. As Danny said, you dont roll over and meekly accept that the systems the system, because it is that rationale which leads to greater homogonisation.
You build some wins, raise morale of the place, turn Lygon St into a Carlton only area again, get the cafes buzzin and shove Carlton down our throats.
Yes it wont happen in Round 20 of a season well and truly lost, but it sure as hell will improve the outlook if we put another strong showing on Saturday.

What wins are we building on Josh? 3 and 1/2 and only one of those convincing.

You build a winning team with the best players available. You cannot attract players to your club on culture and prospects and pride anymore, you draft them according to your team's performance during the season. It's cold and simple.

Painting Lygon Street navy blue and wanting things to change is also simple but it's not going to change anything because the senior side won't be any different. They may slog their guts out and we can be satisfied with that but wanting to see another premiership in your lifetime is another prospect all together. Season 2006 is nearly over and if season 2007/08/09 are going to improve for us then we need to be able to access the best possible talent in order for Carlton to compete come September. That means draft picks.

Loving or hating the system is a seperate issue to loving or hating losing.

Wonderful, it'll last about a week.

All the fantastic publicity we'll get in November and the excitement generated from having the number one pick and another one in the top 5 will exceed it I promise you

I am off to Europe for 3 weeks on August 25 - so I don't have to watch the last game in case its the one we throw away the PP...... Also having long discussions with the wife if we should go the way aginst the Pies. I am gainst it - can't stand the thought of a loose / loose scenario aginst the scum. The end can not come quick enough....

yeah, exactly mikkey...
people say all this stuff about tradition and rivalry...but what better way to stick it up them by taking the PP away from them...? they clearly want it...i mean really...you can't just lose from 20 points up with a few minutes to go....

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R A D I C A L B R O T H E R S

Inspired by the One-Minute Sculptures of Erwin Wurm

"All in all is all we are..."

Shannon Grant and North did the same thing against the Saints at the start of the year. Give North some credit, the only tanking going on is in your minds.

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"We used to sit around and talk about how bad the game plan was." Anthony Koutoufides

Sorry for wanting to win a game fo football.
No team has played the system. Theyve just been crap so theyve reaped its rewards. If we were really crap we'd lose to Collingwood anyway.. not play to lose.

Helloooo...JK...welcome to the real world...50/50 chance

Losing to collingwood this week = labor pain
getting the PP which leads to a step closer to be a dominant team once again = the Baby.