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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 8:05 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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dannyboy wrote:
Bullshit - it has been stated many, many times the win is meaningless, people are selfish to want a win (or to enjoy a win - after the event!) compared to the loss, that we needed to lose, that Pagan was holding the club back by trying to win, and so on - don't put intentions behind their words Ty just take their words at face value because the rest is talking shit.


yeah, I think its meaningless as well because the win hasn't been as part of a list development plan.

I would say the last 2 seasons, at least, have been a waste of all of our time because there's either no or completely erroneous list management strategies in place.

Thats why the wins are selfish... because there's no plan. In that case, we're better off losing.

You have to read between the lines.... why do people want us to lose, and then the same people get annoyed when certain players aren't picked at the selection table?

People are looking for a plan and we're getting nothing. No wins in the Pagan era, that spring to mind, can be considered landmark turning points in our history. There's no "yep... that was the day that we knew we were on the right path".... because we have no path.

Pagan has been a selfish coach. Very selfish. I actually hate Pagan because I think he's a parasite. I can't watch a club with Pagan coaching. There's no development.... I've actually hoped we would lose so it would get him closer to the sack.

The "selfish" calls are because people are disillusioned, danny. Thats the "grey area" that sits behind the comments.... the motivation for the remarks.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:17 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

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Tyrant wrote
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I would say the last 2 seasons, at least, have been a waste of all of our time because there's either no or completely erroneous list management strategies in place.


I know that the last 2 seasons (7 seasons) we have witnessed a lot of wasted opportunities and disappoinments. We have been dealt a 5 year sentence, but we are really in this dull era of our club's history from a an ignorance of the duty of care we trusted in the boards and coaches back since at least the end of the 2000 season. The last 2 years have set us up to build a big squad of quality kids; 25 of them with another 5 coming to add.

I would say that there have been plenty of good signs that have brought satisfaction to all of us.

What about Murphy(18), and his efforts so far? He's surprised the whole football world! He's arrived and we've got him. What a great choice Hughesy, GOLD! That's given us a buzz.

Walker (20) has come of age. And when he takes a run bouncing the ball, from HB to HF, now that's been magnificent to watch. And in a similar, but more breathtaking style, Simpson (22), he's also been admired by the football world.

We've all felt a bit of a buzz when we read, in bold, that Kennedy(18) has kicked 5 goals in the Ants, and when the backline players for the Ants Russell (19), Bower (18), Flint (18), and Setanta(23) have been named in the best players, Raso(18) kicks a few goals, and those 18 year olds Blackwell (19) and Smith(20) are killing it in the middle. I do.

Then they've had game time; their first game, their first kick, their first goal, and most of those guys who have come in and sing the song for their first time in the Carlton jumper; and we sing a long. Mate, those times have been fanastic.

And on Sunday, we unveil 2 more rookies, Edwards and Jackson.That group on Sunday add, Murphy and Kennedy is the future. It didn't just come from no where. Add Hartlett's and Raso's heartening comebacks from serious injury and illness, there are certainly grounds to consider not all of the last 2 years were a waste of time.

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People are looking for a plan and we're getting nothing. No wins in the Pagan era, that spring to mind, can be considered landmark turning points in our history. There's no "yep... that was the day that we knew we were on the right path".... because we have no path.


Yeah, uninspiring for the most, but I think that day against the West Coast eagles at Subiaco, certainly gave everyone a glimpse that there is big hidden potential under all that. And we've played well since that game. It's the first time in 2 years that the football world started noticing us.

We beat the best team in Victoria twice!! Nearly took the game from the Bumbers too, and that Collingwood game; that game was touted by the media The game from yesteryear 30 years ago. No flooding, highly spirited and we looked again. We've looked really good for many quarters, and halves of many games. Mate we've faded in may games; but they are our kids, and we have to take the pressure off them. The kids have shown plenty.

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I actually hate Pagan because I think he's a parasite. I can't watch a club with Pagan coaching. There's no development.... I've actually hoped we would lose so it would get him closer to the sack.


Now you're venting. You have seen development, albeit not to your total satisfaction. But it's there, and will grow with or without Pagan. We will have a great quality youth list to start 2007. Don't let Pagan misdirect your passion for the club, he'll be gone when these kids start to play finals footy, and we'll still be here with this great squad. Enjoy.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:34 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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sorry... I meant "development plan"... there's obvious development in players like Murphy, Walker and the other ones you mention bondi.. but there's no "plan"..... I can't see how Smith getting picked to play @#$%&! all minutes constitutes a "plan".

call me old fashioned, but a "plan" (or, should I say, a GOOD plan) should have contingencies and be all inclusive.

Pagan has no idea... he's a parasite

and by "wasting 2 years" I mean its 2 years of a development plan that we've missed out on.

Playing Murphy and Simpson etc doesn't constitute a plan.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 9:51 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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absolutes

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:22 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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absolutely 8)

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:31 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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absolutes are annoying.

might feel good for the absoluter but not the absolver.



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:32 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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I've always thought of them as absolutees

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:35 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Absolutely.



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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EDITED TO REMOVE ABSOLUTES FOR PEDANTIC READERS

********

sorry... I meant "development plan"... there's obvious development in players like Murphy, Walker and the other ones you mention bondi.. but there's A VERY VERY BAD AND AN ULTIMATELY FAILED "plan" IN PLACE..... I can't see how Smith getting picked to play F@%&#! all minutes constitutes a GOOD "plan".

call me old fashioned, but a GOOD "plan" should have contingencies and be all inclusive.

Pagan IS A SELFISH PRICK... he's a parasite

and by "wasting 2 years" I mean its 2 years of a GOOD development plan WE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ON that we've missed out on BECAUSE WE WERE ON PAGAN'S PATHETIC ATTEMPT AT A "PLAN".

Playing Murphy and Simpson etc doesn't constitute a GOOD plan, JUST FITS IN WITH HIS SLAPDASH ATTEMPT AT A PLAN THAT DENIS HAS BEEN USING

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:52 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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there you go, pedants, who really don't make me think

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:56 pm 
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Alex Jesaulenko
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Absolutist.

You probably only vote for one party at election time too, huh!



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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:22 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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bet he uses crosses and not ticks too

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:41 am 
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Robert Walls

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i am confused Tyrant with all this talk about a plan or lack of.

are you unhappy with the kids development and therefore believe there is no plan?

are are you happy with the kids development and believe there is no plan?

love the coach or hate the coach, the kids are coming along and as a result 2006 has been a statisfying one of sorts. A third of the year into the season there was a big question about AW....being played too defensive and all....he only continues to bloom.
and is seen as a champion of the future.

Does Denis have a list development plan? how would i know....but i am happy with the development of the kids.....and i don't just mean the top picks like AW or Murph.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:47 am 
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Harry Vallence
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Agree with that London Blue. There's been a few people whinging about Smith only playing a few minutes on the weekend, but guys like Simpson started the same way. It's an approach that maybe conservative, but it seems to have worked over the past couple of years.

Roll on 2007!


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 1:51 am 
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Robert Walls

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steve i'll send the file tomorrow - apologies mate for the delay


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 2:13 am 
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Harry Vallence
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No probs. Cheers.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:19 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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london blue wrote:
i am confused Tyrant with all this talk about a plan or lack of.

are you unhappy with the kids development and therefore believe there is no plan?

are are you happy with the kids development and believe there is no plan?

love the coach or hate the coach, the kids are coming along and as a result 2006 has been a statisfying one of sorts. A third of the year into the season there was a big question about AW....being played too defensive and all....he only continues to bloom.
and is seen as a champion of the future.

Does Denis have a list development plan? how would i know....but i am happy with the development of the kids.....and i don't just mean the top picks like AW or Murph.


its like I had to clarify for danny, the champion of posters-who-dont-understand-complexity-and-need-a-champion-to-point-out-absolutes.

It is erroneous for me to say he has "NO" plan.. he has A plan...

My contention is its a very poor plan.

While, lets say, X% of players on our list have improved Y%, under Pagan, my argument is that the actual numbers of X and Y would be GREATER with a better coach/better plan.

So he has had some successes.... but he has had some terrible failings as well.

THERE YOU GO DANNYBOY! CAN'T GET ANY MORE GREY THAN PERCENTAGES!! NO ZEROS OR HUNDREDS HERE!!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:53 am 
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Robert Walls

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Tyrant
i am not attempting to defend Denis's game plan or question whether he is the right coach or not, but who are the players you believe he has failed to develop to the levels that would satisfy?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:20 am 
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Bruce Doull
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The Tyrant wrote:
While, lets say, X% of players on our list have improved Y%, under Pagan, my argument is that the actual numbers of X and Y would be GREATER with a better coach/better plan.


Is there going to be a test on this later? I was always good at algebra, but Calculus was a definite weak point.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2006 11:35 am 
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Stephen Kernahan
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Kaptain Kouta wrote:
The Tyrant wrote:
While, lets say, X% of players on our list have improved Y%, under Pagan, my argument is that the actual numbers of X and Y would be GREATER with a better coach/better plan.


Is there going to be a test on this later? I was always good at algebra, but Calculus was a definite weak point.


yes... what are the turning points in Wiggins' career?

WIGGO'S CAREER = 2x^3+6x+15

The 15 responds to his draft position

:garthp:

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