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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 8:29 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
Makes sense. Not that I ever liked Van Halen or David Lee Roth. And did you really read his autobiography?

Should have guzumped Port and snapped up Dean "the junkyard dog" Laidley when he and the kangas parted ways last year. No better tactician in the game.


You don't have to like them or him...just recognise that the guy was an operations expert. Your second point is spot on and pretty much where the 'crack' lies. A person with the tactical nous of Laidley would have found our 'Brown M&M'.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:22 pm 
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John Nicholls
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You know what,

it's not always as simple as "we're X amount of players away.. 3 this 1 of that, 6 of whatever.."

I really don't understand this kind of thinking. It's about how the team plays AS a team, and how each player might play a role.

It's not so black and white.... And the end of the day you have to score more than the other team to win.. its not whoever has the best, most sensible lineup on paper wins

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:26 pm 
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John Nicholls
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17th Premiership wrote:
this is more about strategy than personnel....
Its more about how we play.


I think this pretty much sums up what I was getting at

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Keith Urban wrote:
There's no doubt we have Myriad Cracks - no doubt whatsoever. Problem is, we don't know they exist. That's what the summer months are for; get everything in order and then iron out deficiencies whether that be in NAB or Challenge Cup.

I liken the Carlton situation to Van Halen...yes - you heard me - Van Halen. During the 80's Van Halen did dozens of shows every year, and at each venue, the band would show up with nine 18-wheelers full of gear. Because of the technical complexity, the band’s standard contract with venues was thick and convoluted — David Lee Roth said in his autobiography that it read "like a version of the Chinese Yellow Pages." A typical "article" in the contract might say, "There will be 15 amperage voltage sockets at 20-foot spaces, evenly, providing 19 amperes."

Van Halen buried a special clause in the middle of the contract. It was called Article 126. It read, "There will be no brown M&Ms in the backstage area, upon pain of forfeiture of the show, with full compensation." So when Roth would arrive at a new venue, he’d walk backstage and glance at the M&M bowl. If he saw a brown M&M, he’d demand a line check of the entire production. "Guaranteed you’re going to arrive at a technical error," he wrote. "They didn’t read the contract…. Sometimes it would threaten to just destroy the whole show."

In other words, Roth was no diva. He was an operations expert.

At Carlton, I don't think we have an operations expert. I don't for a minute question Ratten and Riley's capabilities to understand the modern game and the modern footballer. However I think they're far to reactive - not proactive. If they were operations experts, they'd know pretty quickly how to move the chess pieces around to gain the upper hand. Like a lot of the boys on the list - the coaches are perhaps another year away from figuring out what Carlton's brown M&M is.

That's a ripper story and you're on the right track. There is no doubt Ratten is a coach who is learning on the job, but I'm going to wait and see what he has in store for the regular season. I'm not pleased about how we seem to avoid the corridor a bit much, but I very much doubt that is his to-the-letter instruction.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:17 pm 
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Ken Hands

Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:37 pm
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jimmae wrote:
Keith Urban wrote:
There's no doubt we have Myriad Cracks - no doubt whatsoever. Problem is, we don't know they exist. That's what the summer months are for; get everything in order and then iron out deficiencies whether that be in NAB or Challenge Cup.

I liken the Carlton situation to Van Halen...yes - you heard me - Van Halen. During the 80's Van Halen did dozens of shows every year, and at each venue, the band would show up with nine 18-wheelers full of gear. Because of the technical complexity, the band’s standard contract with venues was thick and convoluted — David Lee Roth said in his autobiography that it read "like a version of the Chinese Yellow Pages." A typical "article" in the contract might say, "There will be 15 amperage voltage sockets at 20-foot spaces, evenly, providing 19 amperes."

Van Halen buried a special clause in the middle of the contract. It was called Article 126. It read, "There will be no brown M&Ms in the backstage area, upon pain of forfeiture of the show, with full compensation." So when Roth would arrive at a new venue, he’d walk backstage and glance at the M&M bowl. If he saw a brown M&M, he’d demand a line check of the entire production. "Guaranteed you’re going to arrive at a technical error," he wrote. "They didn’t read the contract…. Sometimes it would threaten to just destroy the whole show."

In other words, Roth was no diva. He was an operations expert.

At Carlton, I don't think we have an operations expert. I don't for a minute question Ratten and Riley's capabilities to understand the modern game and the modern footballer. However I think they're far to reactive - not proactive. If they were operations experts, they'd know pretty quickly how to move the chess pieces around to gain the upper hand. Like a lot of the boys on the list - the coaches are perhaps another year away from figuring out what Carlton's brown M&M is.

That's a ripper story and you're on the right track. There is no doubt Ratten is a coach who is learning on the job, but I'm going to wait and see what he has in store for the regular season. I'm not pleased about how we seem to avoid the corridor a bit much, but I very much doubt that is his to-the-letter instruction.


This is a very pertinent point Jimmae, and goes against much of the doubters train of thought.
That is, what is Ratts actually trying to instill in the playing group?

I'm convinced that as a coach he is well aware of the difficiencies of the kick outs and also of the ease in which the opposition move the ball out of the back half, and I'm also convinced he isnt telling the group not to man up and not to create space and kick to advantage from the kick out!

As in all instructions and learning roles it takes time and we need to exercise patience.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2010 10:54 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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..i think the players, as a team, can get lazy..

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:29 am 
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Harry Vallence

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Bigblue wrote:
Well........................depends which way you look at it.

Saw the 2 NAB games at PP and the intra club. Cant say they filled me with any great confidence and after much backing of Ratts for the past 2 years......I'm slowly starting to turn against him. Beggers belief that we cant resolve our kick ins or defend them the other way :roll:

But then, ...............sure we lost Fev and Stevo( who did bugger all toward the latter years of his career ), but gained ..Warnock, who'll be handy, Brock ( although he's been sh1thouse so far :banghead: ), Hendo ( who's there abouts ) and we get back a fit Jamo, Bower( who we lost late last year ), and Waite .....................BUT most of all we have the natural maturity of the bulk of our list by another year.

Despite what i've seen so far this year, I simply refuse to accept a season with less than what we achieved last year. Regardless of FEV and Stevo, the rest should make up for it.

I did say should. :thumbsup:



Biggy,

Bower played 21 games last year (maybe you mean he got hurt in the last 3 minutes of the final against the brions).


And guess what - we'll have injuries this year as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Robert Walls

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myriad of cracks?

this is 'boys own manual' stuff ie not such thing as the perfect line up.

we have enough first and second round draft picks on the list, at least 13 or so that have played a season or more.

this year, particularly with the loss of Fevola, it must be amount committment, wanting to get best out of each other and a game plan.

there is no reason to expect we should go backwards in 2011.

Another pre-season under the belt, a message of discipline in the off season and start of the art facilities - more than balances any loss of one player.

Myriad of cracks? we should aspire to set a new standard this year.........one for all other clubs to compare against and indeed highlight the myriad of cracks existing across every other team. Stay tune for a new 'boys own manual' to be released for all dreamers.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:59 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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As I have mentioned previously, we should always be getting the best support possible eg Swann. Look at the rucks since Capuano started coaching them. Each one has come along significantly. If we do need an operations expert and I am not close enough to the coaching staff to know one way or another, we should admit it and be getting the best NOW whoever that may be.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:46 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
jimmae wrote:
We've gone from having questionable rucks to having a questionable forward line. Small forwards were an issue last year and that crisis was solved, so now really it's just the media assuming we can't deal without a clear focal point in our forward line, and that we have no one who can play such a role.

The former they may be right on, but the latter presents itself in one Jarrad Waite. :thumbsup:

A Fox Sports pundit has us down to finish 13th, heavily referencing our pre-season form. Other write-ups suggest Johnson, Wiggins and other lesser-lights are key names missing from the mix at present. :donk:



I wouldn't put too many eggs in the Waite basket as yet Jimmae :wink: It will take a bit of time before he is back to his best. A bit tentative as yet, and understandably so. He needs to get right not only physically, but mentally, and the re-injury to Fish wouldn't have helped with the fear factor that comes with a big injury. Waite will be vital once he is right, but for the near future anyway I think his output will be limited.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Adrian Gallagher
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Teddy Hopkins wrote:
If we do need an operations expert and I am not close enough to the coaching staff to know one way or another, we should admit it and be getting the best NOW whoever that may be.


Too late. They've been hired.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:08 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
Drewgirl wrote:
What worries me as well, is Ratten & Co saying they are happy with our pre-season games.

How can you be? Surely the passion is there to win every game, and not just settle.

I would like Ratten to come and and see he is not happy when we lose, because we certainly are not as supporters especially with poor skills and lack of intensity.



Don't be conned by the headline writers Drewgirl :wink:

I don't think that you could describe Ratts happy in any way shape or form after the Swans game.

He was a bit happier with the Lions game, but that was in comparison to the Sydney game :grin:

He was pleased with Waite and Murph getting through the Eagles praccie and the fact that a few kids got a go and somehow that turned into "He was happy with the game"

Crows game the same, pleased with some stuff, but wanting us to improve in some areas. Not sure where the happy headline came from that one either...perhaps due to no major injuries? Pleased perhaps?

He seems to have been pleased with areas of our game and some individual performances, but I think he has also pointed out areas where we need to get better. How we bring it out of the backline and take it into forward fifty as examples of areas he hasn't been happy with.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:21 pm 
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Bert Deacon

Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:20 am
Posts: 548
lily of laguna wrote:
jimmae wrote:
That's a ripper story and you're on the right track. There is no doubt Ratten is a coach who is learning on the job, but I'm going to wait and see what he has in store for the regular season. I'm not pleased about how we seem to avoid the corridor a bit much, but I very much doubt that is his to-the-letter instruction.


This is a very pertinent point Jimmae, and goes against much of the doubters train of thought.
That is, what is Ratts actually trying to instill in the playing group?

I'm convinced that as a coach he is well aware of the difficiencies of the kick outs and also of the ease in which the opposition move the ball out of the back half, and I'm also convinced he isnt telling the group not to man up and not to create space and kick to advantage from the kick out!

As in all instructions and learning roles it takes time and we need to exercise patience.


I think the recruitment of Johnno (not that it has worked :oops:) and playing Stevo down back, even though he was a poster boy for white men can't jump and that isn't a great attribute for a defender :lol:, indicates that he recognises that we need a bit more in the way of quality disposal coming out of that area. The problem is finding players who use it well, but aren't a defensive liability and other teams aren't likely to give up that type of player. Best bet is developing your own. Lets hope we have a few coming through.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:46 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
Posts: 25837
Location: Bondi Beach
london blue wrote:
myriad of cracks?

this is 'boys own manual' stuff ie not such thing as the perfect line up.

we have enough first and second round draft picks on the list, at least 13 or so that have played a season or more.

this year, particularly with the loss of Fevola, it must be amount committment, wanting to get best out of each other and a game plan.

there is no reason to expect we should go backwards in 2011.

Another pre-season under the belt, a message of discipline in the off season and start of the art facilities - more than balances any loss of one player.

Myriad of cracks? we should aspire to set a new standard this year.........one for all other clubs to compare against and indeed highlight the myriad of cracks existing across every other team. Stay tune for a new 'boys own manual' to be released for all dreamers.

:grin: :clap: :grin: :clap: :grin: :clap:

You really are a born leader LB.

At least I can say, you know what you're talking about.

There's a lot of doomsdayers out there who say it as they see it....it's not their fault they don't know.

I know the Blues are coming...and I know how young they are too. :wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:15 pm 
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Geoff Southby

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bondiblue wrote:
london blue wrote:
myriad of cracks?

this is 'boys own manual' stuff ie not such thing as the perfect line up.

we have enough first and second round draft picks on the list, at least 13 or so that have played a season or more.

this year, particularly with the loss of Fevola, it must be amount committment, wanting to get best out of each other and a game plan.

there is no reason to expect we should go backwards in 2011.

Another pre-season under the belt, a message of discipline in the off season and start of the art facilities - more than balances any loss of one player.

Myriad of cracks? we should aspire to set a new standard this year.........one for all other clubs to compare against and indeed highlight the myriad of cracks existing across every other team. Stay tune for a new 'boys own manual' to be released for all dreamers.

:grin: :clap: :grin: :clap: :grin: :clap:

You really are a born leader LB.

At least I can say, you know what you're talking about.

There's a lot of doomsdayers out there who say it as they see it....it's not their fault they don't know.

I know the Blues are coming...and I know how young they are too. :wink:



You are both right but at least these threads gives the whingers something to whinge about until the season starts proper. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:49 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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I thought we went into 2009 with the following cracks:

Backline - Jamison's durability; Depth
Ruck - Warnock's durability; Hampson's capacity to be more than just athletic
Midfield - too dependent of Judd, esp. for the hard ball; Hadley's durability; Walker's durability
Forward line - too Fev focused; query on Yarram's fitness; Depth

Coming into 2010, the queries are:

Backline - Jamison's durability (+1); Austin's durability; Depth while options develop.
Ruck - Warnock's durability;
Midfield - Hadley's durability (+1); Walker's durability
Forward line - potential lack of focus if Henderson isn't ready, particularly given preseason did nothing to indicate Krezuer is the solution; Depth while options develop.

Walker and Jamo are always fine at this time of year. It means nothing till they prove differently.

My view is we're stronger through the Ruck and midfield than last year which will make us competitive in most games.

We're weaker in the forward line without Fev and there is an even bigger query on whether key elements of our defence will stay on the park once the sherrin is kicked in anger. There is actually some depth there for a change with Casboult, Tiller and Donaldson to plug in up forward and White, Davies and Dare down back. BUT, and it's a fairly big but, with the exception of TIller and White, none of those guys will be much use this season if we get a bad run of injuries.

In summary, we should start the year strongly, but if the injuries mount we could drop away quicker than expected. The structure is there, but the depth only exists on paper at this stage.


Last edited by nightcrawler on Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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nightcrawler wrote:
I thought we went into 2009 with the following cracks:

Backline - Jamison's durability; Depth
Ruck - Warnock's durability; Hampson's capacity to be more than just athletic
Midfield - too dependent of Judd, esp. for the hard ball; Hadley's durability; Walker's durability
Forward line - too Fev focused; query on Yarram's fitness; Depth

Coming into 2010, the queries are:

Backline - Jamison's durability (+1); Austin's durability; Depth while options develop.
Ruck - Warnock's durability;
Midfield - Hadley's durability (+1); Walker's durability
Forward line - potential lack of focus if Kennedy isn't ready, particularly given preseason did nothing to indicate Krezuer is the solution; Depth while options develop.

Walker and Jamo are always fine at this time of year. It means nothing till they prove differently.

My view is we're stronger through the Ruck and midfield than last year which will make us competitive in most games.

We're weaker in the forward line without Fev and there is an even bigger query on whether key elements of our defence will stay on the park once the sherrin is kicked in anger. There is actually some depth there for a change with Casboult, Tiller and Donaldson to plug in up forward and White, Davies and Dare down back. BUT, and it's a fairly big but, with the exception of TIller and White, none of those guys will be much use this season if we get a bad run of injuries.

In summary, we should start the year strongly, but if the injuries mount we could drop away quicker than expected. The structure is there, but the depth only exists on paper at this stage.


I think you mean Henderson. Well at least I hope you do.:lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:22 pm 
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Rod Ashman

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SurreyBlue wrote:
I think you mean Henderson. Well at least I hope you do.:lol:


Correct weight.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:33 pm 
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Mike Fitzpatrick
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Drewgirl wrote:
What I have seen so far is a lack of intensity, and they are slow in moving the ball.

There should not be much difference due to Fev not being there. Our midfield has gone backwards so far for some reason. This was our strength last year. I think our backs are better, our rucks are better and technically our forward line should keep the ball in better this year.

Problem for mine. Midfield seems slow.


Agree to some extent and that is why the solution lies in the coaches box...we are in need of some ingenuity this year from the box....would love to see some pace played through the middle...ie. Betts and Walks for example. We need line breakers running through the guts much more than chuggers...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:54 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:03 am
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Juddy&theKruezers wrote:
Drewgirl wrote:
What I have seen so far is a lack of intensity, and they are slow in moving the ball.

There should not be much difference due to Fev not being there. Our midfield has gone backwards so far for some reason. This was our strength last year. I think our backs are better, our rucks are better and technically our forward line should keep the ball in better this year.

Problem for mine. Midfield seems slow.


Agree to some extent and that is why the solution lies in the coaches box...we are in need of some ingenuity this year from the box....would love to see some pace played through the middle...ie. Betts and Walks for example. We need line breakers running through the guts much more than chuggers...


You are a dynamic duo Drewgirl/ J & K's.

I reckon you're right. Slow in the midfield.

So what's happened? Nothing much until you look at FF, but we are slower in the midfield.

Betts and Walker in the guts. That's a brave move, but it has merit.

Perhaps McLean should focus on sprint work over the next fortnight because he's a starter with Judd out. The spotlight is on him.
He's the only difference to our midfield in our 2010 campaign...and he hasn't excelled as expected.

IMO, with or without Fev we are still a very young team full of class and are expected to play like seasoned campaigners because yes, we are bereft of senior players, but we expect high draft picks to be ready within their first 3 years (1st preferably).

Our list is sensational on every line. I'm excited by that.
I reckon there's only so much a coach can do to make kids men over night.
We're young, but we made the finals and nearly a top 4 finish, after half our list were decimated by injury in the 2nd half.

I like the idea of adding speed instead of pure grunt (Hadley McLean types).
Have to think about that.
Have to wait to see it next Thursday. I can't wait for that.

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