Teddy.. how can you feel ashamed when you have no shame???
If you had shame youd hate it when overpaid players pull your pants down each week.. and slap your arse till its red???

So Teddy and ashamed is an oxymoron....
You can follow the Blues each week.. but remember one thing.. you live in the REAL worls not the pretend world.. where everything will be ok..no worries...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Two universal constants folks:

1) Synbad & BlueMark aggressively exchanging views.
2) Debate over Campo's worth.

It's great.

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Galaxies in the grain...

The difference between DOA and Campos dad is that DOA can truly say his son has a work ethic and pride...DOC cxant say the same thing if he really is truthful.
In fact DOC should apologise to DOA for his son not doing for DOAs son everything that was done for his own son when his son joined our great club and had players like Williams to take him under their wings for a smooth transition into AFL football.. where they took him to a flag in his first year.
DOC of course isnt responsible for Campo being a LAIR... and no matter what anyone says.. in my opinion the experienced players of especially the last 5 years.. most of who have been turfed out as they deserved to be.. have helped let this club down.
It will be players like T Bird and Waite and Walker who will bring it back up again with the tuition of Denis ..who is having to do it with very lettle help from his experienced staffers.

Yes Denis knows Campo better than i do..; and will treat him accordingly when the time is right... IMO.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Facts are:

It's about today, not the past when it comes to Campo. He was once (circa 2000), dare I say it, in the best 10 in the AFL, not since 2002 where his form has been very ordinary.

In today's football market, Campo is worth no more than 200K per season, and less for subsequent years.

If we were locked into a contract that enabled him to earn up to 600K per season, then good luck to him and his manager for sealing the deal, BUT, where is the ROI (Return On Investment)? What do Carlton get in return? Very little bang for the buck!!!!

He should be a true leader, but isn't showing it. I'd be happy to pay M Voss that sort of money at that age, and know it would be worth it through his leadership and presence.

These are the facts!!!!

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For some silly reason, you people want to assassinate him, and it's just rubbish. You people. All of you, ALL of you!

good post until you went soft like campo and threw in the smiley faces...

Theyre not smiley faces theyre laughing faces with a wink thrown in... !!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad you refered to Darren Hulme sarcasticly in the reminicing thread. Is it fair to say whilst disruptive off the field when he crossed the line he bled blue? Most pundits refer to the fact that his knee injury killed his pace and therefore probably the only thing he had going for him but to me he personified the attitude I want in a Carlton player on the field. Never say die.
This is all I ask of Carlton players, to show pride passion and commitment for the jumper that they have been allowed to wear. Many of us wish we had the ability or realise far too late that we do but should have worked harder and regret what we had. I understand Campos critics because he seems to only put in 1 or at best maybe 2 decent qtrs a match, but honestly dont know if he deserve all the critism. He certainly doesnt deserve the money that he is allegedy paid, however if he was paid/rewarded according to market value at the time should he be crucified. Remembar that most people are reward by pay increases accoring to performance yet many executives in the upper eschelon fall flat on the faces only to be rewarded with a kick in the arse and massive pay outs (not saying this is right but it happens).

Finally would you be happy with a heart breaking loss ie kick after the firen of another touched(geelong 20 seconds to go)goal. I know I would if it meant at least showing we can mix it with the best at present and still stay on track for your promised pot of gold?

Campo was opnly ever a good player in a good team.
Much like Heffernan, Blumfield,Moorcroft ....
Some of the very young posters here would have remembered Campo playing well but have no clue as to what the fundamental mechanics of the Campo good years were built from.
Campo would have been crap if there was no Brown Williams Ratten doing ALL the heavy work for him.. and Bradley to get the first tagger while Campo was allowed to do what he liked as the FIFTH midfielder.
Sheedy recognised which players are fundamental players in a team structure and which players were the peripheral players that play well within the structure that OTHER players established.
Campo should have been traded to Port for their first two picks at the time and we would have ripped them off BIG TIME.
Unfortunately for us we were run by the Keystone Cops..who had no clue about structures, playing list management and salary cap management.. so now were up sit creek and paying for it.
Campo was nothing more than a mirage....!!!
People like BB2005 can say whatever they like but they have no idea of the big picture and why were hurting today.

It isnt JUST Campo and his long term killer contract... he is one of a feew things around the place that embodies a sick culture that killed us to become the pushover, frail rabble we are today.

Campo doesnt need help. He doesnt want help.. if he wanted help he would have taken a pay cut to allow other quality players to come to the club and help him.

Well he does want help.. but not at the expense of what he is being paid...

For me.when the last of the Elliot contracts and influences still hanging around the club with that foul stench is gone..ill be happy.
Ill also know be confident that the club will begin to go forward again in a healthy and fairminded manner.

It doesnt take einstein to work out why former players are pissed off with the clean out that had to happen...and why current players cant turn it on and help out the kids...

The "me me me' mentality is alive and well..and Campo isnt paying for it with my criticism... Im paying for it by Campos crap performances over YEARS while he counts the money he receives with a money counting machine.

I always hear.. "but Campo would be a good footballer in a good side... Lance would be a good footballer in a gun side"... the problem is were not a gun side and those two are not front line footballers they dont have the WANT to be front liners...and thats why they cant stand up for us when we most need them to.

We cant afford to pay blokes money like that and stroke their egos when they cant/ dont perform.
Oberpaid and dont do the little things to show they care....cos they dont care!!!!

theyre not here for the hard yards... they would rather leave than play under Denis!!!.. Denis is too hard for players this soft...he wont stand for softcocks whingers and downhill skiiers...

thats why were shit!!!!
Its not Livo or sporn or Wiggo... (Half tjhe time these players get confused because theyre trying to defend their player as well as players from up the ground running amok and loose) their confidence is shot because blokes like Campo do the bare minimum ... THEREFORE.. Sporn Wiggo etc go backwards...!!!.. therefore the club goes backwards!!!!!

If Campo Kouta want help.. get a pay cut and let us bring in aplayer to help them....!!!

..they dont want to get paid REALISTIC wages??? Well .. they dont need help they need to get flogged week in week out.. and anyone who supports them deserves everything we cop!!!.. unfortunately the rest of us have to bear it too... at least i get my kicks out of sticking it up them..!!!

Sure theyre my scapegoats.. but they warrant the criticism if theyre collecting long term fat contracts and dont play like it....

When is the last time Campo took a more than one game by the nuts in a year???

He couldnt even win a BnF last year .. it should have gone to Lappin but went to Teague.. youd think players of the ilk of Campo and Lance would really be showing daylight to the rest of the players in this side.... but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO...!!!!.. theyre just your average day run of the mill footballers who just happen to get paid HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.. and applauded for doing so by some ...thats the funny bit!!!!..

Well thats where were at.... lack of desire and fight and huge long term high paid contracts to a handful of players well past their shelf life.. (Some at the club some not at the club but at other clubs)...

Weve been well and truly bent over and .....

Now we can only hope for priority picks and hopefully choose some good players to add to Walker Waite Betts T Bird etc...who do have a work ethic and some fight... so when this generation of players have to pass the baton onto the next generation of players they wont let them down like this generation was let down by the last...

.. who really dont give a shit about the kids its about 'me me me me'... because if it was about the club they would lift their care factor around the place.. chase their man.. and mentor the many kids we have....!!!!

Thats why im pissed off!!!!...

There are NO EXCUSES for what has happened in the last few years.. just reasons...
Just a corrupt and fat set up that has poisoned the very fabric of the footy club...

Go read history on Rome. the Ottomans.. the Byzantines..or any great power and youll find that selfishness corruption arrogance excesses and the fact that they stopped caring are a some of the reasons they came down with a thud...!!!

Elliot provided the environment for this to eventuate.. people like Campo etc took advantage of the fess pool which it has become..

Collo and Denis will hopefully turn the thing around...

and its not about winning its about overturning the culture.. cleaning it up and then you can really begin talking about winning ...and really making those wins count!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Funny how Dennis seems to think Campo goes all right. And quite frankly that is good enough for me.


As for the 600 000+ figure he is alledgely on. I have been hearing that for the last 4 years at least.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Synbad is spot on. Go back through my posts at TBV when I joined, I was the first that mentioned the inadequacies of our supposed big three, Camporaele, Whitnall and Koutafidies. Should have been offloaded after the 2003 season, the lot of them.

I despise these blokes with a passion, and pray that come seasons end, all three will be gone, then we can start from scratch and re-build this once proud club.

You sure you are not a Richmond supporter Rudy. Your anti-Kouta agenda is pathetic.

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

Not always a fan of the way Synbad rips into people, but I've got to say, his last post here is a pretty succinct and accurate account of where we are at and why.

And if you all think I'm a Synbad disciple, well, I've only met him once and my observations are global, in the sense that I take on board what everyone says here on TC, not just Synbad and I also see what Camporeale does on field and quite frankly I think some of you have the 2000 glasses on and refuse to see what made him a great player that year.

He was ignored by the opposition because they had a guy called Koutoufides who basically needed the attention of 2 players; but they still couldn't stop him. There was Ratten, Bradley to help draw flak away from Camporeale.

When the class around a player falls away, the really good players stand up and deliver and influence the players around them. This hasn't happened with Camporeale. Look, I know the sentimental reasons why he'd be a favourite here:

- He's played over 200 games
- He's won a B&F
- He's a ladies man
- He's played with us for 10+ years

Look that's fair enough, but can you honestly tell me have his first 5 years been better than his last 5 years? I think so.

I'm going to lay the boot into Stevens here, disagree wtih Synbad, and say that unless Stevens starts to try to carry the load and stand up, then he might start getting it from me. He's developed a bad habit of Camporeale's and that's to be frustrated by taggers. I know he's been on one leg the last two weeks but still, I think we can expect better.

Having said that I haven't seen Stevo mouth off at the umpires and whinge continually; he disagrees with some decisions, but all players do.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky

To be honest I just read Synbads little tirade against me. Nothing I haven't heard before.

So Synbad given you know how much various players have been paid over the last few years. Can you please give us the figures for Campos contract for each year since 2001? Think I asked for these before but strangly they were not forthcoming.

Very interested.

And of cousre I am always wrong, thats why I nailed the figures on Fevs contract right on the head.

As for real world

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Lucky we've got Synbad to stir things up; otherwise we'd have to talk about Carlton and holding up the AFL ladder.

I presume Campo. isn't going to be around next year - so why not drop him to the reserves?

Give the youngsters a try. Carlton hasn't won one norwich rising star award this year... where are the youngsters?

Amazing how anyone that disagrees with your anti-Camporeale agenda is automatically wrong or has "no idea of the big picture".

I reckon I understand why we're hurting today pretty well, why should anyone understand it any less well than you Synbad? Did you think AT THE TIME that Campo should have been traded to Port or are you just using the benefit of hindsight? It's easy in hindsight isn't it!

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Formerly Blues-Back2003.

Campo will be at the club next year and yes, on a reduced contract.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

Bluemark, wouldn't it be better to cut our losses and let him go.

Surely it would free up a lot of room in salary cap either way (even if on "reduced contract of 250k?") to let him go and for us to recruit a player who can be an inside midfielder and can give 100%

I just can't see what he offers Carlton. I watched him in the Brisbane game closely and he was playing ring, ring a rosey with a Brisbane player - not even looking at the ball. It was as if they were doing a private dance or something. Tag team dancing. I say cut our losses and move on.

It is an option Tap, but at this stage Dennis, it vwould appear, has him down as a required player. My personal view is that Campo has a year or two left and we still need to find a player to replace him, something in my view we have not done as yet. If we had a 'gun' 21 yr midfielder that Campo was keeping out, then I would likely agree with you or suggest he play on a flank instead.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06