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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:08 pm 
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John Nicholls

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I'd like to know how many goals Fev has kicked from a Houlihan pass.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 11:10 pm 
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Ken Hunter

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Are we able to get that stat PJ?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:24 am 
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Ken Hands
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Three years after I tell you lot this guy is as soft as butter and can't play football you finally come to realise it. Congratulations.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 8:22 am 
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Robert Walls
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Please post a link to some footage of you backing back in to a pack CG.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:27 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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He needs to concentrate after the season on doing a lot of weights ,getting a trainer to toughen him up, as i feel he will be traded after next season. He is still young 23 or 24 with 100 games experience who gets the ball a lot, but it's time he does something about his weakness because it will be his downfall.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:32 pm 
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Rod Ashman
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BlueChick2122 wrote:
I think someone needs to talk to Denis and get his honest thoughts on Houls. Otherwise we don't know how he feels about him.


Denis wouldn't say anything bad on any player to the public, he would say some rubbish like the guy is still learning and young, who struggled a little this year but the run in the VFL will do him good and expect to see him back in the side.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 9:38 pm 
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Stephen Silvagni
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Blues2005 wrote:
bluechucky wrote:
I'm sorry, but he is not a great deliverer of the pill.

I too recall most of his passes ending up short, or long, or wide.

His skills are over-rated IMHO


You're joking right?

How many times does he need to hit Fev lace out for you to be convinced? He's possibly the best kick to position that we have, his skills are not overrated at all, they're actually excellent. Houlihan has the skills, his problem is his toughness.

The problem is that he takes risks; risks invariably don't always come off otherwise they wouldn't be called 'risks'. He costs us badly on occasion because he takes risks. Taking risks is part of the game. But Houlihan is a play-maker. When you're a play-maker sometimes the play you're trying to make won't come off. Yes it's frustrating, but I won't blame a player who clearly has the skills for backing himself to hit a target when he has the footy unless the target to whom the kick is intended is a manifestly unrealistic option in the given situation.

If I was a forward at the club I would want Houlihan delivering it to me every time. He makes a few mistakes and he does have his shortcomings but his skills are not one of them.


I automatically assumed this was Blue World.

I agree with everything you say regarding Houla's skills. He's hit Fev with some ripper's this season. Watching the Ants a couple of weeks ago in windy conditions he hit Deluca with some superb passes.

At which point do those skills fail to make up for his attack on the ball in contested situation's though?

If a contender (where he could be an outside icing on the cake type player) came to us and said we want Ryan, what do you want? Would you be willing to pass up a decent pick/player?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:06 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Denis is kind of a fan of Ryans.
He went to great lengths to keep him last time.

Im not sure what Ryans droppping means.

Tho if he stays here and isnt traded (unlikely to be traded).. Ryan will have to turn himself into a more consistent performer next year.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:17 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
Tho if he stays here and isnt traded (unlikely to be traded)..


Unlikley ?? :shock:

It's a certainty !!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:20 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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TheSheik wrote:
Synbad wrote:
(unlikely to be traded)..


Unlikley ?? :shock:

It's a certainty !!


Nah, it's a maybe. (I love the middle ground)


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 10:56 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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TheSheik wrote:
Synbad wrote:
Tho if he stays here and isnt traded (unlikely to be traded)..


Unlikley ?? :shock:

It's a certainty !!



Ok .. tell us to what team.
You seem to know alot about whats going on.
Remember... every club has players like Ryan and we have the least amount of them.. so who would take him and give us something we need Shiek??

I hope i can get a straight answer. cos you sounded so certain.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 11:06 pm 
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Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:50 pm
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TruBlueBrad wrote:
Blues2005 wrote:
bluechucky wrote:
I'm sorry, but he is not a great deliverer of the pill.

I too recall most of his passes ending up short, or long, or wide.

His skills are over-rated IMHO


You're joking right?

How many times does he need to hit Fev lace out for you to be convinced? He's possibly the best kick to position that we have, his skills are not overrated at all, they're actually excellent. Houlihan has the skills, his problem is his toughness.

The problem is that he takes risks; risks invariably don't always come off otherwise they wouldn't be called 'risks'. He costs us badly on occasion because he takes risks. Taking risks is part of the game. But Houlihan is a play-maker. When you're a play-maker sometimes the play you're trying to make won't come off. Yes it's frustrating, but I won't blame a player who clearly has the skills for backing himself to hit a target when he has the footy unless the target to whom the kick is intended is a manifestly unrealistic option in the given situation.

If I was a forward at the club I would want Houlihan delivering it to me every time. He makes a few mistakes and he does have his shortcomings but his skills are not one of them.


I automatically assumed this was Blue World.

I agree with everything you say regarding Houla's skills. He's hit Fev with some ripper's this season. Watching the Ants a couple of weeks ago in windy conditions he hit Deluca with some superb passes.

At which point do those skills fail to make up for his attack on the ball in contested situation's though?

If a contender (where he could be an outside icing on the cake type player) came to us and said we want Ryan, what do you want? Would you be willing to pass up a decent pick/player?


I agree with what you say Brad about attack on the footy etc but that wasn't what was in argument. Bluechucky was talking about how Houlihan's skills were apparently "overrated" so I was responding to that by saying that in my opinion it isn't true at all. I also said in my post that Houlihan's problem is his toughness and yes it is a significant problem but what I reckon is that people have perceptions of Houlihan as 'soft' and therefore sort of form biases against him based on one aspect of the player which clouds their view of other aspects of the player's game. If you understand what I mean...

I would trade Houlihan if we got a great deal but otherwise I'd keep him. I don't think he's invaluable to us but he is pretty handy with his skills. I've always considered Houlihan a similar case to Travis Johnstone, i.e. both have excellent skills but are perceived as 'soft'. But Travis Johnstone has gone forward this season and been pretty good and maybe Houlihan can do the same next season.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 10:46 am 
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Serge Silvagni
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Synbad wrote:
Ok .. tell us to what team.
You seem to know alot about whats going on.
Remember... every club has players like Ryan and we have the least amount of them.. so who would take him and give us something we need Shiek??

I hope i can get a straight answer. cos you sounded so certain.


At this stage, he'll be at Windy Hill next year.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 12:05 pm 
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Harry Vallence
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Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...
The Vet wrote:
Dukes wrote:
The last quarter yesterday once again emphasised why we need players of his ilk. At key moments of the game the inability to hit targets cost us chances to move the ball up the field quickly and create scoring opportunities. The turnovers by Morrell and Carrazzo were crucial.


You can't really be suggesting that its Houligan's delivery that is going to save him. His delivery against Hawthorn was pathetic, turnovers, kicks to the opposition and OOB.

No, he's GAWN.


Saying he turns over the ball at times doesn't put him any further behind probably three quarters of the list ... including Mr Courageous Wiggins, the Great White Hope Walker and Our New Midfield Star Carazzo.

If he's played in the forward half where the occasional error isn't as crucial, his creativity can at least be used to create chances for our forwards. Not 50/50 contests but giving them real opportunities to outmark their opponents. Look to the Geelong game in the 2nd quarter (to Fevola) and even the last Bullants game (to De Luca) for proof of what he can do with his delivery into the forward 50. A player that takes risks to create and with the potential to find a leading forward ... I'd keep him - in front of Davies, Clarke, Johnson, Bowyer, McGrath, Bannister, Wiggins, Sporn.

PS Not trying to bag all of our players (espcially the younger ones like Walker and Carazz that have shown us glimpses) but the fact is most on our list have their pros and cons. Houlas is in the same boat but IMO his pros (100 game experience, general skill level, ability to carry the ball and his ability to find the ball) outweigh the cons (perceived softness - have a look at the hard ball get stats - and occasional skill errors - mostly on his left side).

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:35 pm 
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Melbourne Supporter

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We definitely wanted him last year.

Not so sure now, personally I am in the market to offload one of surplus outside class - Yze, Bruce, Johnstone, Green.

But we do badly lack midfield pace and maybe he offers that.

Any interest in Bizzell <-> Houlihan?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:39 pm 
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Geoff Southby
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Really he has never been a midfielder old55, has played his best footy on a HFF or back pocket. I think the dees have the personel, they just haven't delivered.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 3:53 pm 
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Wayne Johnston

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old55 wrote:
Not so sure now, personally I am in the market to offload one of surplus outside class - Yze, Bruce, Johnstone, Green.
?


I'll tell you what. We'll take some outside class of your hands, in Bruce, Green and Johnstone. And we'll give you some inside grunt to compensate, in Brett Johnston, Kouta and Luke Blackwell. You can even have Michael Stinear thrown in for free.

How's that for a deal?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:08 pm 
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John Nicholls

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Location: Back 50 of the Tiger Den
I'll have Green, thanks.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:44 pm 
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Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:20 am
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Location: Adelaide
What bout Johnstone.?
I doudbt the Dees would give him up though. If they slipped up and decide to go for a houlihan-johnstone deal then I would take it in a second.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2005 4:51 pm 
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John Nicholls

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:10 pm
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Location: Back 50 of the Tiger Den
Anyone think Houlihan might fit in at St.Kilda?

Could be the finisher they need and wouldn't have to get his hands dirty due to the in and unders they have.

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