You dont sound happy KK

and by the way I have never stopped

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Well...understandable, don't you think?

And credit to you, at least you're consistent

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

As much as I dislike the bloke I think the reaction to this game has gone a bit over the top . They were obviously trying something different and it did not work . 350 + possessions is a lot and unusual .

Every second post I read looks like one of mine

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

I thought azza was joining in with the running joke of the thread because there are so many spelling mistakes in his post

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|♥♥♥♥♥♥| http://www.blueseum.org |♥♥♥♥♥♥|

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

I have been a supporter of Pagan being retained but its getting hard to justify that posistion. I tend to judge the players in terms of what they get paid and what they deliver ie Lance Whitnall and if I was to apply that same theory to Denis Pagan and be fair to the Whitnall, Fev, Stevens etc then Denis hasnt delivered either...I'm a patient person by nature but I keep seeing the same things year after year and team structure and selections confuse and frustrate me..

While it was a practice match and I dont really care about the result, it was more the way we lost and the dont care attitude of the players..you would expect the days of being belted to be over and I think supporters have the every right to question Pagans efforts and demand more or terminate his contract...at the moment its looks like the Pagan years have been a failure...we have changed the list, assistants, the only thing that remains are the coach and board and I think the time is coming..

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

yes but can we at least wait until the season begins and watch our progress or lack of it.


If he isn't the man he isn't.

But its funny hey, last year he showed his hand and we got belted from there on in, at least this year no one will have a @#$%&! clue what we'll do come round 1

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

In the risk of getting shouted down, I wonder whether some posters on this board have really understood what kind of results the St.Kildas, Sydneys, Melbournes, were getting when they were in the rebuilding phase we are in? These teams would get shallackings, often at the end of a Carlton game. Why? Because the players were young, inexperienced-the sides were still forming their game plans etc.

Ok, maybe in due course it may be another coach that will more out of the players. But c'mon, let's keep our cool and realize that rebuilding phases with youth will inevitable mean there STILL will be thumpings. Go ahead and look at results from the Bulldogs and Demons etc the year before they came out of hiatus. They would get thumped. They were at the bottom of the ladder. Even just weeks before before these teams rose from the ashes to sget more consistent wins and compete in finals they were belted.

What I am suggesting is, we need to live in reality....And give it time-at least let's see where we are at at the end of the season to decide whether the development is where it should be. And whether a change of coach is just the ticket.

Now about supporting the Blues.... I live in Sydney. I only get down to see 4 or 5 games a year. But I am proud to be a Gold member and to have my 4 year old son as a Gold (adult paying) member. Because I am committed to the team, the Club and our future.

Ok, I have had my monday morning rave that has been building up over a few weeks!

Fair enough...I dont expect a haphazard sacking of the coach in a Richmond, Stkilda style and dont think that would help the club or a incoming coach but I would be looking , sounding out potential coaches and doing my sums...give him this season to turn it around and stop the beltings, get some of younger players to the next level and review it...

I would be having a chat to Michael Voss mid year if things were not going well and seeing what he was doing the following year.....we have been patient with Denis and he has tried a lot of things but if its not working then you cant let things keep going ..maybe a Voss type could inject something to invigorate the club..

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"When you have the attitude of a champion, you see adversity as your
training partner."
- Conor Gillen

no probs with that so long as well all understand even with a new coach we are years away. i just don''t want the cycle most crap clubs (and yes that's us for now) fall in to.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Just because somebody is a great player and great on field leader does not mean they will be a great senior coach or even a great assistant coach. Does the name Kernahan ring a bell?

I laugh my head off every time I read that line Great player dont make great coaches.

Here are a few examples of Great players who are or were Great coaches

Matthews
Roos
worsfold
Wallace
Blight
Walls
Jezza
Eade
Sheedy
Malthouse

Just to name a few

Great players can and do make great coaches and I am sure Vossy will be a great coach

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

They usually do an apprenticeship these days. Just as players do. That takes time & patience!

Many of those were hardly great players- fairly average I think- Malthouse, Eade, ?Sheedy (before my time).

Plenty of great players who weren't suucessful as coaches- Bernie Quinlan, Kevin Bartlett, Buckenara, Tim Watson.

Firstly, Jezza a great coach? I beg to differ. Secondly, you can also make a list of great players who failed as coaches. My point is again - you can not say that somebody who is a great player and onfield leader will automatically make a great coach. Once they had a go as an assitant it is easier to tell. I would love to have Voss as an assistant coach at Carlton, but not as a head coach without any experience.

Pagan is regarded as a great coach because he won two flags at the Roos . Jezza was denied his moment in the sun by a board room . He although not a great coach (as he comeback 10 years later proved ) he could have had 4 flags under his belt and then been regarded as the greatest.

I agree with you in regards to Vossy he needs a year or two as an assistant - But not under Pagan

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

OK. That's it.

All of you, out of my thread!

NOW!

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.

Even me?

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Richard Pratt - A Carlton legend.

I think you're ok to stay here Dino.

You're welcome here.

Even verbs is

I think those who aren't welcome know who they are.

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And so while others miserably pledge themselves to the pursuit of ambition and brief power, I will be stretched out in the shade, singing.