12 months ago we owed $2.7m on the stands. Whatever the club values the stands at doesnt alter that debt.

In 2004 the administration crowed they had reduced our long term debt from over 8 million dollars to $1.637m.
Since then the combined entity of football club/social club has made a profit every year.
Yet we are 7 million dollars in debt.

2 years ago the president stated we had formulated a 3 year plan to return the club to a cash neutral position.
Today we appear to be going backwards

What are the facts?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

You could start by reading the financial reports. In 2004 the SC reported a loss of 9 Million and the debts were also reported in both FC and SC reports. There was simply a shift in debt structure. Looking at the documents before me I can't see a base for your statement in the second paragraph.
However, yes we are going backwards. The debts are just too large. PP and the Legends Stand are a white elephant that kills the club (e.g. we still owe 1.5 Mill on the Heroes (Bicg Jack) Stand - and the current Board can do nothing but shuffle the deck chairs. Only a drastic measure like the handover of PP to the AFL can really help.

It should also be mentioned that our revenue now is only half of Collingwood's.

PS: I said yesterday that the combined liabilities of FC and SC were about 17 Million. After re-reading the report I can see there are more of 3 Mill owed by the SC to the FC. So the total combined liabilities seem to be more like 14 Mill . However it is still nearly a hopeless situation.

The Board has been completely hamstrung by the white elephants since they came to office and blaming them is completely unfair.

However, drastic action has to be taken or the Club WILL be taken over by the AFL and relocated up north. As our friend Fatprick said this morning on SEN (and my god many people are happy about our demise on radio this moning) "there was a stench of death"at the presser. And people wonder why we can't get more sponsors.

So we need some new blood on the board with some very good business / financial skills.

I also think the last thing we need is more instability. No matter how much some here hate Pagan - if the club would move on him it just would make matters wors IMO.

The more I look at the numbers and take the current membership numbers and sponsor sitution into account - the more I have to say it is 5 to 12. Make sure you tell your friends - people HAVE to buy their membership NOW.

From memory we acheived the magical $6.5 million drop in the debt on the stands by getting a redirection order which transfered future revenues from the AFL for our share of the sale of Waverly straight to the bank.

Looking at the following quote:



The first dot point is saying that we went and borrowed another $4m from the bank 12 months ago via another redirection order from the AFL (presumably for TV rights revenue). Since this redirection was renewed for another 12 months in October, it sounds like it was put in place when we commence the first year of our 3 year financial plan.

Why would get ourselve back into debt I hear you all ask? I guess because our cash flow was so bad we would not have been a going concern without a pot of cash to actually keep the club running while the three year plan did its work. It doesn't matter if you have $2m debt or $10 debt, if you can't pay them when they're due you're insolvent.

Now I'm not exactly sure on the second dot point, but that sounds awfully like we haven't yet been paid all of the one off cash payment that the AFL was giving us for relocating to TD, but that there is more coming this financial year. If was in the order of $2-3m depending on which newspaper report you read at the time, so perhaps the deal was that this payment would be made over 2-3 years.

Overall, it sounds like we were working to a plan. The plan has slipped because we struggled to get sponsors, and gate receipts probably slumped at the end of last season as well. But overall we're still within the tolerable limits of the plan because the bank hasn't forclosed on us. I would suggest that if the sponsorship/onfield performance problem doesn't improve this year then that probably won't be the case by the end of the season and that is when we will be fore to swallow our pride and go to the AFL for access to the Competative Balance Fund.

As Patrick Smith said in the Australian today, the one thing the club can hold its head high on is that to date we haven't gone straight to the CBF, and that we've tried to get ourselves out of this mess.

Heard Malouf on the radio this morning and he explained that the 4 million from the NAB via the AFL is the dividend we receive from the AFL at the end of the year. Carlton along with 8 or so other clubs have chosen to have the dividend money available at the start to assist with cash flow. It is an interest bearing loan only due to the fact we are requested the money prior to the end of the season when the 4 million becomes available. We do not pay the 4 million back.

Why shouldnt we go for the club balance fund ?
Smith does really want us to do it the hard way....

And why would you pay off a debt just to go and get yourself another loan????

That says to me you dont have a plan.

Rather than slashing everything.. this board must make sure its brining in revenue streams.
With the wy were making splashes these days and Collos face of death on your television screen.. theyre not coming.

This board has no idea about how to make something have the perception its not already dead.. even if it is.

Nightcrawler as a man of the marketing / advertising world and some of the others on this site that are in that industry surely you agree?

Were doing a fantastic job to tell everybody... "Keep away!"

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Which part cant you see a base for.
The club stated in 2004 that the "Carlton Group" long term debt was reduced from over 8 million dollars to $1.637 million.

Fact.

We now have a debt of 7 million.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

One positive - The season is only three weeks away. Imagine if we'd announced this result at the end of last year, we would have been talking about it for months. Hopefully soon we can start talking footy.

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"I had to eat"

Sale of Waverley funds.
Heroes project.
AFL income for the Optus Oval buyout.
Increased memberships etc all went to debt reduction.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

"long term debt" is the key word. The debts were restructered and moved into the NAB "facilities" guaranteed by the AFL. The club never said that the total debt was only 1.6 milion. It said it restructerd the debt. The debts have increased by about 950 K which is equal to the combined loss of FC and SC in 05.

Look its as simple as this.. no matter what.. we will make huge losses and the debt will continue to grow because this board is unable to sell the club to sponsors.
there is a 20 million d0llar turnover difference between Carlton and Collingwood.
Every banana knows that were down to the bare bones because we have a limited revenue stream .
Which means.. that unless something changes (like new ideas ) we will have to rely on handouts.... because there is not enough money coming in.

again i urge people to vote for a change because we need fresh ideas . fresh blood!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

BV, i think youre arguing with a guy who understands rubbery figures.....

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Page 20 of the accounts is relevant here. In it the Club described the $4m facility which was renewed through teh AFL to NAB after it was substantially paid down through AFL distributions. It seems the Club had to redraw this based on the upcoming years AFL distributions in October 2005.

There has been a substantial improvement in Operating Funds flow - $6m over 2004. Until this gets another couple of million better we will need to roll the AFL dstribution / NAB facility again. The benefit of this is that we will actually get the utilise the AFL distribution (improved for TV rights come 2007) for ongoing purposes. The key to doing this is improved operating cashflow which requires (notwithstanding Synners comments) a) ongoing expenditure restraint and b) improved revenues. Revenues have to come largely from us and of course improved on-field performances. Without that we'll be permanently rotating and rolling our debt. Answer - everyone sign up even if you're not going to watch.

Getting rid of Camporeale didn't send a dreadful message to me.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Of course it's a concern - but generally clubs can trade their way out of these problems....however, it takes a number of years. If I remember correctly, before Brian Cook went to Geelong they were in about the same position as us - a huge debt, and not much success on or off the field. Over about 6 - 7 odd years, they are in a much healthier position. It is possible, but it will take time.

From memory, the debt on the Legends Stand was $12m ish - and now the debt on the stand is $2.5 m (according to the Herald Sun) - that decrease has happened over 10 years.

In the long run we'll be OK - but there are some tough years ahead in the short term. This is why we need supporters to become members and the corporates to hang in there while we are anchored on the bottom of the ladder.

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That's right. Gather the nector my little drones and make honey. Honey for your children.......Fools!!!

oops... see below instead

Firstly I agree we need new blood - but it better be very talented new blood. The situation is very difficult and I do not blame the Board to the degree you do. I also do not think a couplde of sponsorships are enough to turn the ship. I also believe there is a good reason why we cant get more sponsors. The brand is very damaged with a stench of corruption and death about it. Very hard to recruit big sponsors in this situation.

Unfortunately something of a catch 22 situation. We actually need to get out of the mess before we can attract new sponsors - doubt we can get out of the mess by trying to attract new sponsors.

The more I read the SC and FC annual reports the more I get depressed. But reading through it I also feel more sympathy with the current Board. The sheit they inherited was so bad - nearly impossible to get out of without a really large cash injection.

It is like - say you own a house and owe 1 million in mortgage - and it is valued at 2 million and you borrow based on the perceived equity another 700 K(and spend it). Then it is detected that the house is build on shifting sand and the real value of the house and land is only 500 K. At the same time you get sacked from your job and can't do the repayments. Thats about the situation the club is in...

Look the continuing blaming of the Elliiot board is detrimental to this club.. because what theyre doing is deflecting criticism elsewhere.... thats ok to do and quite common but in this case its alienating supporters of this club that have traditionally supported this club in money and kind.
Elliots gone!!!
Forget him!

Now the question is... Do we really want to keep fragmenting this club forever just for self preservation ?????

Collins job is to now go to the Elliot people and extend the hand of reconciliation ...

You cant have half the club fighting this.

In the meantime bring in fresh blood!!!
Or youll get more of the same....

Thats all!!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Do you mean people like Kevin Hall, Barry Armstrong and Wes Lofts? I'm all for extending the olive branch of friendship but weren't these the players who got us into this "poo" in the first place?

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

Would anyone consider "Elliot people" as "new blood"? Woudl any of them be able to make a difference financially? Would any of them increase the clubs credibility with potential sponsors and the AFL (which really holds the key financially if we can do the PP arrangement).

People like Kerr and Hall pumped squillions into this club out of their own pockets....

Whats happened has happened.. but when you get rid of these people youre getting rid of alot of old Carlton money and support...

The other thing is tghis board is a tightarsed board....

Someone will out of their own inadequate performance try and bribe money for votes...
But right now its a case of "Give a man a fish and feed him for a day... teach them to fish and you feed them for a lifetime"
I dont want a token donation to the club by people that cant make a difference on board level.. i want new.. fresh.. virginal talent....

But all those Carlton supporters on the outter must be brought back .
If were to fisht this we must fight it united and with an eye to the future not today!!!

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.