All that shows is it doesn't matter what pick you have, as long as you use it well.

Our free pick would be at the top end of that pile.

If we wanted to use six picks in this draft without a PP or trades, we'd have two picks beyond this range.

Two picks higher than pick 60?

The number of good players to be picked up at any which number makes thinking about a PP rather futile.

Last year it did matter, but this year the stakes are so low it's not worth worrying about.

If by free pick you mean the pick we get for a season of heart break and feeling like shit still on tuesday after our team showed so much on the weekend and still lost. Yeah A free pick would be good but there is no such thing.

Nothing in life is for free

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it is a viscious cycle, we can all continue to ratify finishing low on the ladder by picking up early/additional draft picks.

the logic breaks down.

at the beginning of this year my desire was to see the development of our young kids. sunday presents a good measure of how much they have progressed. hawks have a young side with developing talent of our own.

i come back to what i started the year wanting and the season isn't over.

seeing further development of our young kids vs losing for a draft pick? the former for me.

p.s where i am i don't have the train to go home on singing....there goes that theory

So what.

Brad Fisher was taken at 72. Eddie Betts in the preseason. Ryan Jackson - Rookie list.

James Hird was in the seventies as well IIRC.
Let's face it, the AFL have twisted the knife by changing the PP when we are in this state, lets not give them the satisfaction of another spoon on our record and begging for gruel cause they took away the steak.

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The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ronald Reagan

Performance is performance, I'm talking about what we have to give to secure the pick.

A player, or a player and picks? Nah.

I get where you're coming from BB, I do, but it's round 19, not round 6.

Yes verbs, pick 60 is merely part of the way through the 4th round. We'd have a hard time trading mid-way into the second round without giving up a real quality player (Stevens, Whitnall).

We may well do that anyway, but please don't discount what this PP brings IF we get it.

While Eddie was a huge get, and Jackson looms as that, Fisher has his issues for sure, all three of these picks had big gambles.

Recruitment departments and their methods are growing and evolving year by year, and the results in the last 5 drafts are promising. This is by all reports a fantastic draft, and you're all saying how risky it is to pick up the crumbs from the first round?

I don't follow that argument, just say you want to win, and I'll agree with you. But don't argue you think the PP is useless.

The PP this year compared to the past five years is not worth much at all. So little in fact it's not worth worrying about.

If we could get the PP and avoid the spoon, would take it in a second. My argument is that it is simply not worth getting yet another spoon, to get an EARLIER pick. I want us to avoid the spoon above all else.
I don't subscribe to this loose for 5 years get all the draft picks and then suddenly we'll win a flag. It's not that simple, winning is a culture not just talent on the list that can be turned on and off. This is why StKilda wont win one, even with the enourmous talent they have.

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The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

Ronald Reagan

How can you say that Verbs ??

A bonus pick inside the Top 20 in a draft mooted to be chockful of talent is not worth worrying about ??

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Sheik wasn't wrong in what he relayed from mojo suggesting it at least 100 times.

The PP is valuable to have in this draft.

It's not as valuable as having a PP of last year's variety in this draft but is about as valuable as having a PP of last year's variety in last year's draft.

While it makes the argument a bit simplistic, what mojo has been getting at for quite a while is that while in the overall scheme of things the new PP rules have left us short changed in a numerical sense:

Our PP in 2005 = Our potential PP in 2006.

Or close to. I'm sure someone is frantically emailing him or PMing because I opened my mouth for more than 5 minutes on the draft, but I'm pretty sure that's what he's been getting at.

The top 5 is important. A bonus pick inside the top 20 (late teens) is hardly inspiring. We'll end up with the same sort of player with our second and thirds picks PP or no PP.

If we had a second pick inside the top 5 though, I'd be thinking about things differently, but the way things have been structured now getting a PP holds little interest at all.

Anyone can find a top 20 pick. O'Sullivan is still at the club BTW. You'd know that from watching games. Yes he did find a few 'diamonds in the rough' in the last two rounds. Maybe we'll need him again if we miss out on a top 20 pick.

still dont think the wooden spoon is worth pick 18

Neither do I KP, but we're virtually there.

Play some kids, experiment for knowledge in the future, and see what happens. Maybe rest some senior players, put them in for operations early for a nice recovery time, or go easy at training.

We need the PP IMO, so there's nothing wrong with providing favourable conditions for that outcome. Yes the spoon is highly probable if we qualify for a PP, but it could well be the end of a dark era, and the beginning of a dark one for Essendon*. Some joy to take out of a spoon there.

The wins of this year will probably fade for a lot of supporters once we're rolling again anyway.

Don't even get me started about the issues over at the Saints.

I don't think we need to lose for 5 more years, I am all for winning games but preferably from the start of the season, not a minor purple patch at the end of the season when the heat has been turned down.

Winning is a culture, I'll grant you that but you need some talent to go with it. St.Kilda & us are opposite at the moment.

Saints - talent but no culture
Blues - no talent but rich winning history

Now we have the history and old player to trot out to invigorate and reintroduce that culture. It's not like that culture is going to die off overnight, we have been in the business for 100 years. It has taken the AFL to revamp the rules to stop us from being successful and finally earn a wooden spoon. That's how long we have been in the winning game !!

Besides, there is a huge latent supporter base who will spring to life on the back of some promise & anticipation of success which is best created by the injection of new talent via the draft. Hells bells, there were supporters across the internet cracking woody's left right & centre when we traded for Harford, Johnson, McGrath & co. Imagine what the blood pressure in their groin is going to be if we snaffle picks 1, 17 & 18 ??

You won't win games (or many that is) if you don't have the talent.
You can only get the talent from the one source nowadays, the draft.

You want to generate some real excitement at the club, well let's go to the next draft with a swag of picks earnt via last place, the PP plus some shrewd trading.

I guarantee you'll have one so hard a cat won't be able to scratch it !!

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

What are the odds of Pagan doing that? This talk is a complete waste of time because it won't happen.

Why is it so difficult for the club to go with that mindset? I just see it as common sense. The thought process at Carlton is flawed IMO.

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There's so much I could say...

Really ?? If that is the case, then why did we draft so many duds ??

Adam Chatfield mean anything to you ??

Look mate, do not try and defend O'Sullivan's drafting record, it's abysmal no matter what spin you put on it.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS