Agreed.

leadership group has to be hard.

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"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

its the senior players like Skinny, Lance and Campo that have no respect for Dennis and this is flooding through the list also they are money hungry pigs and the new Carlton board wont take there shit. Campo, Skinny have to understand they no longer have any pulling weight, they are insignificant in the rebuilding of this club and they are worth shit far as im concerned they are letting there team mates down, setting a bad example, showing no leadership no passion and no fight. The thing that shits me is why players like Skinny, Campo, Stevo and Lance have to be challenged week in week out you dont see any of this at other clubs with there core senior groups.

don't know if I'd put stevo and Lappin in the same group.

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

Definitely wouldn't.

People are emotional, I understand, but Lappin for one stayed with us before when offered a lot more money. Stevens is struggling at the moment but will surely lift when we give him support.

Campo and Whitnall, look, they've had great contracts in the past but that will have to end. If that means they leave, so be it, but those contracts are a key cause of our current problem, no doubt about it. If their feathers are ruffled, and rumours come out of unhappiness, then that's just what has to happen.

At the end of it all, we need to clear these biggie contracts for our future.

Actually,

If anyone takes notice of the original post: It says he has lost the playing group. 43 players in the playing group.

Well after today we can reduce that to 42 players currently lost. Denis found Brendan today who was LOST yesterday.

If this season was a race horse, you'd pull the curtain around it by now

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Love Cricket? Love me

Mav and BillC3, I think you've hit it on the head.

I feel much, much better now.

May I say, I love this site.

It reminds me of sleeping out in the queue for finals tickets (remember that? all those extra games in September that usually ended in us building another glass cabinet... Arghh the memories). Anyway I digress. In those queues there was always someone that knew someone that spoke with a past player that had a juicy rumor. It's nice to see that even though we aren't likely to play finals for a while we still have the rumours to keep us warm.

I love the fact that people are now suggesting that we decided to tank our season after the Wizard Cup premiership, that is priceless. Nothing to do with a few injuries to key position players, or more established players lack of form.

Also love the Pagan has lost the playing group line too. Does that run through the entire playing group? If so how do you explain the Bullants form? What about the other coaching staff? What is there role in all of this? Is there are real player mutiny? And at what point did he lose the playing group, was it before they were holding the pre-season cup, after they nutted out a draw to Port, when they have clawed their way back into matches? It is just too easy to say.

Mind you what I saw of Pagan's address to the players at the last game at OO, no wonder he has lost them, not exactly one of the world's great orators. Perhaps the players just don't get his mixed metaphors. Maybe we need a linguist coach.

And the rumor that I love best of all and the one that has generated so much friendly debate about the "Young" player looking to move on. What a classic. We are repeatedly told that we have the youngest list in the comp, so it could be anyone of 36 players. And if we lose one at the end of the year, it will be just too easy to point back to this thread and say "see, I told you".

However, the graveness of the tone suggested that it will be one of our gun young players. Mind you they all come in for a bagging here at some time or another so really who could we lose that would be such a huge loss anyway.

Pagan has got three years now to get us a premiership, he seems to persist with a game plan that does not suit our playing personnel, which shows that he is fairly autocratic in his approach. This should mean that we trade for players that can play his style of play. If our young guns don't fit measure up then we are never going to be a great team anyway as we will always have players that cant fit in.

Anyway, keep up the good work, may the rumours persist.

And my guess is that the mystery player is Whitnall. I think he is dirty with Dennis and can't play his natural game. And if he goes at the end of the year, you can all sit back and admire the fact that someone living over the other side of the world can pick up the subtleties of Carlton's psychology without even seeing a game.

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

If there is any truth to the runour ... it would be a disappointing result if we do lose one of our 'gun' young players seeing as the sole reason we are running out on the paddock for the rest of the year is so as we can lose enough games to aquire some more young 'guns'.
You'd wanna hope we'd make them feel welcome.

Will be signed up soon.
Campo will be offered a one year contract. Its reduced from the one he has rejected already.
Lappin is a VERY required player and is in a group of elite required players in Pagans eyes.
Contract sticking point is dollars as well as the three years.
It will be resolved unless something goes horribly wrong... (more than likely he will re-sign)

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Campo should take what ever he is offered

Walk where?

He will get ok money but just a one year contract....

Personally id turf him out...!!!




.....but then were desperate for drive by players.... running past for the handball.

Anyway he will be renumerated in accordance to a player of that ilk....

If he doesnt accept it gets difficult doesnt it???

He should have accepted the prior offer...well in 3 months time he might be saying to himself he should have accepted the one year deal...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

I agree Synbad. He has had it too good, shows no leadership i cant believe that he is vice captain.

v79 the past player's comments doesn't surprise me. I've spoken to a few past players and generally their views on the coach tend to vary. some are even bitter towards the club they bled for (and earned a mere pittance) all those years ago. I still love them!

So a pay cut for Stevens is on the way?

Lets keep turning over 15 players a year so we can get Pagans game plan working by 2010. When is he actually going to get someone to play his game plan?
Eade was praised for his gameplan on the weekend because its used the strengths of the Bulldogs side when is Dennis going to bite the bullet and start working to some of ours?
Why before every game the opposition know our gameplan and plan for this because they know we do it week in week out even our plan B is plan A?
Why do we kick long to forwards who are at their best when leading for the ball not taking pack marks?
Why do we kick long into our forward line when the opposition flood or play loose men in defence?
Why do we play the corridor when every side against us runs it back around the wings where there is heaps of space?

Maybe we could go back to good old fashioned first option football.

Scotopee . Our players are dumb.
What they do on the field is not indicative of what they are meant to do on the field.
Will Stevo get a pay cut???
Stevens is one of Denis` board sanctioned 'untoucheables'.. we dont have many of those. ...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

People seem to think that Pagan's gameplan is simply "bomb it long to CHF to Wayne - oops he's not there ".

Pagan's gameplan is to use the ball efficiently and not piss-fart around with handball in the back half. We're supposed to move the ball quickly to our forward line's advantage. Kicking it blindly inside 50 is to the opposition's advantage, especially when many teams today play one, two or even three extra defenders (I'm looking at you Laidley).

Well said Scottopee, surely after 3 years DP has players playing to his gameplan. Isn't it his responsibility to get players to do what he says. DP has proved himself good with a good stable group, he is very methodical but don't think he's in the same league as Eade in terms of quick thinking and strategy. Whatever happened at North, this is a whole different situation and he really has to prove himself without a gun team or the best player (in Carey) for the last 30 years. We've been treading water so far and talk of player disillusionment doesn't surprise. I doubt the Carlton players are any dumber than anywhere else. It's up to the coach to develop a plan that gets the most from the group and to get the players to carry out the plan. We're a spiritless, directionless rabble. Everything won't be miraculously solved by a couple of 18 yr olds in the draft.

I third everything above.

I think you confuse bombing it long to kicking long to a lead.

You can kick long to a lead, a kick to a lead doesn't have to be 15-30m. You can kick to a lead from 30+ metres.

Our players can't even hit a target when players have more time to run to a ball with more airtime, how are they going to kick short to a target??

Some people are confused. They think kicking long = bombing it.

WRONG.

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"A good composer does not initiate. He steals."

- Igor Stravinsky