It's all starting to become clearer isn't Synbad . When I have been raving about the coach and the board for the last six months I have been torn to pieces on this site. Now you are starting to see that The Board is weak and Pagan has to much control and will not change for the better of the club.
I've said it all along "It's my way or the Highway"

You cant have this in a football club , particulary one that has just come last. The lack of leadership shown from the top filters down through the coach and into the players and you end up where we are. The Admins not accountable - so the coach becomes unaccountable - his staff become unaccountable which then filters down to the players.

Pagan and the Admin need to stop pointing at the AFL and the previous administration for their woes and start looking at what the real issues are.

While our coaching staff have been complaining about Wells and Goddard - Paul Roos and his staff have been teaching their players how to tackle.

This administration is no better than the last.

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If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

Sorry Gerry I was being delibertly provocative. But I do find it interesting is that those who canned me (I was just repeating waht they stated)a couple of months ago for questioning the footy department are asking the same questions.

It is good to see hard questions being asked. Not only of player but also the administration and coaching staff. It is to easy just to blame the players. The entire club has to take responsibility for the situation at the moment and in my view that aslo includes the supporters.

But also the solutions must be holistic not just targetting indivivuals.

One in all in.

PS The board still does have my full support in any decision they may make regarding the club over the next period of time.

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A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty" -Winston Churchill

L.M 35-06

What responsibility do the supporters need to take for situation BM???? I believe that if anything, we are about the only party that is not to blame. How many times I have wished over the last 4 years that I could simply stop following football!

Synbad, you can't appoint a guy for 3 years and then tell him he can't have the assistants of his choice. He's the head coach, he needs to be given responsibility of doing things his way. He's certainly paid enough money to take on that responsibility. If my boss came up and told me he was replacing my team with new employees, I would fight until I was blue in the face, and if I lost, well I'd be out of there quicker than his head could spin.

The way I see it the review concluded the state of the playing list is the cause of our problems, not the coaches. That's fine. So start fixing the playing list Carlton. Get rid of the guys who aren't contributing and bring in guys that we think will aid us medium to longer term.

If at the end of the trade period we have sat on our hands and are stuck with the same old players and their same old problems - well that's when we should be asking some serious questions. And demanding some decent answers.

I can go with that. Our list is better than it was 12-24 months ago but it's still abysmal.

There may well be problems at board level and at coaching level but whilst we have the list that we have I want to see some serious list building.

If this board thinks that means shipping Fevola and keeping Whitnall or trading early picks or doing any of the stupid things that scaredy cats do then I'll want blood.

Until the end of the trade/draft period I'll suspend judgement on the wider problems.

I'm just surprised that it has taken people so long to see that changes are needed and that the current board and the coaching structure is woefully inadequate.

If people were to be brutally honest do you think Brittain could have done worse than 16th, 15th and 10th if he had been retained? I doubt it. Yet most people were happy to sit back and proclaim Pagan and the board as messiahs which would bring the club back to success.

The fact is that there hasnt been direction for years.


We have had a coach and board which has proclaimed the need to draft young kids yet have probably recruited recycled players at a greater rate than was seen in the parkin/brittain era

We have had a coach and board that has proclaimed the importance of good character in draftees yet have picked up several known headcases in croad, angwin and norman and chosen to persist with others such as fevola.

We have had a coach and board that has proclaimed the importance of developing our younger players yet they are given limited opportunities in the seniors (both in terms of exposure and opportunities)

We have had a coach and board that has promised direction to the club yet has failed miserably.

I agree BM. I have also questioned the performance of the board and the footy dept long before the previous 2 days - you are only as good as your off field team!!

I don't disagree with you, I'm just for change over a 3 year period not a 1 year period. Don't compare us to Hawthorn, they are not under the media microscope we are, we also need board stability, they've got that with Jeff and others. Think in terms of migrations not beheadings. Seriously Synbad, you sound like you've drank too much of that top quality coffee.

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Blue is the colour, Blue is our colourful conversation, football is the game, talking carlton is our aim, we're all together, we're all together, winning is our aim, arguing is a pain, let's debate for gain. .. .!

Would you care to elaborate GWS?
How effective has Pagan been in improving our list?

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Thats something I'm struggling to come to terms with 79.
Does this quote not worry anyone else?

"The Carlton board also has indicated that it will pursue a long-term list management strategy — a plan over three to five years — through which the club will retain its early-draft picks, avoiding the short-cuts the club believes have contributed to the dire state of its list. "

We have averaged about 6 wins per season since Pagan joined the club 3 years ago.
How the @#$%&! can the club "now" decide to pursue a 3-5 year long term list management strategy after 3 years of failure?
What have we been doing, flying by the seat of our pants for 3 years?

There should have been a list management strategy in place from day one.
What the hell has been going on the past 3 years?
Pick up this has been, contract him for 2 years and sack him after one.
Pay him out.

Hawthorn have a philosophy in place which is transparent and not negotiable.
It is open to scrutiny.
Thats why the media are giving them an easy ride.

Whats Carltons philosophy?
Contract Fevola for 3 years and 3 months later try to offload him.
How can the message get through to the members and football media when we change it like your undies?

I am losing confidence very quickly at the moment.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

So extreme changes are going to get you more than or a better shot at six wins in 2006? Talk to me about decisions that increase wins in 2009 and beyond.

For the second time Hawthorn are not us, cutting down Hawthorn doesn't sell papers like cutting down Carlton does.

Decisions should be made by an understanding of a football club as a business and a football club as a football club.

How many Bob Ansett incarnations are online at Talking Carlton

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Blue is the colour, Blue is our colourful conversation, football is the game, talking carlton is our aim, we're all together, we're all together, winning is our aim, arguing is a pain, let's debate for gain. .. .!

You think it's worse...

As I said - it's still abysmal but I'm fairly happy with a number of the kids we've picked under extremely difficult trading/drafting circumstances.

Walker
Betts
Russell
Bentick
Carrazzo
Hartlett
Raso

Add 4-5 to that list this off season and the same again at the end of next season and we might be heading in the right direction again. We won't be challenging for a premiership but at least they'll be worth watching.

I never expected these kids to be stars from day one and some of them haven't even played yet but the fact that they're on the list rather than another set of retreads (not knocking the retreads policy here - we really didn't have much choice at the time) or Murphy/Allan/Beaumont/etc is a good start as far as I'm concerned.

We haven't been flogging off picks in the first two rounds for a while now and as a result we have Walker, Russell and Hartlett. We'll have 2-3 more from that end of the draft this year and same again next year.

Should we have not gone down the retread path 2-3 years ago? Maybe but I didn't hear too many complaints at the time and we didn't give up much to get those players. Chambers and Longmuir are the only ones where I thought maybe those picks should have been used to punt on kids but I'd seen Chambers play some good games and thought he'd add something worthwhile.

Too much wrist-slitting going on in here at the moment I reckon.

I'm going to wait until after the trade/draft period and see what comes up. If we make a series of stupid decisions then I'm going to want some answers too but at this stage we're all winding ourselves up a little too tightly while we wait for mine.

Your such a idiot Surry the sooner you go join the filth the better we will all be

flower

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A macfart a day helps you work rest and play

This will be the fourth trade/draft period this coaching panel / administration has been involved in.
I'd suggest we may have had a plan in place before now.

I dont mind looking to the future GWS.
But I get very concerned when the direction we are heading in gets changed.
The player we nominated as the face of the club 3 months ago and signed for 3 years is now being offered to anyone remotely interested.

BTW, I did'nt say our list was worse than 2-3 years ago but I'd be interested to hear how you think we've improved.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

whoever is appointed as the new additional assistant coach should have one non negotiable feature - the ability & patience to coach kids. If I was going to make a suggestion I think a Paul Hudson (GIPPS POWER) would be ideal.

Sauce? I can't understand all this hysteria based on rumour and media reports....

TC is not much chop at the moment. Most posts are rumours and hysteria based on rumours (e.g. last week it was "Board is caving in to Lance and Campo").
Maybe try to sit back and take a deep breath and see whats really going to happen..

No hysteria Mikkey.
I have an impeccable source within the club who informs me Fevola is being offered around.

But dont be misled, whether that is good enough for you means jack shit to me.
I dont post here to gain your support.

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Looking forward to seeing our potential realised.

Oh the love around here. So many people claiming sources inside the club. Last week we were told the Board was caving in to Lance's demands... As I said I sit back and see what evolves instead. Lot of anger around here. Well, understandable in away after a season like this. And if Fev was to be traded it might have to do with him behaving badly post contract - who knows. We will see.

I think some people here should attend the next AGM and challenge the Board - they seem to know more about how to run the Club and coach the team then those in charge at the moment...

Hudson had the cattle this year but they were well drilled. Very much in the Pagan vein of demanding the most from his players.

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Blue is the colour, Blue is our colourful conversation, football is the game, talking carlton is our aim, we're all together, we're all together, winning is our aim, arguing is a pain, let's debate for gain. .. .!

Are they trying to offload Fev or just testing the waters to find out what he might be worth?

I'll be furious if Lance is kept and Fev traded. We deserve to be a rabble if we go through with that