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Denis, it's time to move on.

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The Vet

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:59 am

Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:24 am
Posts: 1217
Location: Melbourne

I think the pressure is beginning to mount:

Deja Blue

Sheehan says:

Quote:

Hard to know what coach Denis Pagan does from here. The man himself seems to have exhausted all his ideas.

As despair grows among supporters, and supporters of influence, the pressure mounts.

[url=http://www.realfooty.theage.com.au/realfooty/articles/2006/05/22/1148150187562.html]Pagan's feeling blue
[/url]

Walls says:

Quote:

It's a challenging, confronting and confusing time for today's older coaches. Kevin Sheedy, Mick Malthouse, Pagan and Leigh Matthews have all felt forced to change their ways. They have been advised that if you can't beat them, join them. Or get out of the game.

As the Carlton coach drove home on Sunday night, he had to be thinking that his old ways surely would have returned more than four goals, and more than one goalkicker.

Re-inventing yourself in your late 50s can't be easy.

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

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TruBlueBrad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:36 am

Stephen Silvagni

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:27 am
Posts: 28528
Location: Free Beer!!

BlueWorld wrote:

Libba does the midfield & is very good at throwing the ball up when they do their drills in the warm up!

I'll volunteer to do that for free so we can use his salary to pay for someone who'll teach the players to tackle.

_________________
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent." Qui-Gon Jinn 15-05-2005

"there’s more chance of me becoming the full forward for the [Western Bulldogs] than there is of any change in the Labor Party." Julia Gillard 18-05-2010

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mjonc

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:57 am

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:34 am
Posts: 8888
Location: 8888

If we employ someone new and they responded to the interview questions with "I have no answers", they would have to be a shoe in for the job :-D

_________________
Mjonc signing off at 8888

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jimmae

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 1:49 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality

To be fair, neither of those articles were really having a go at Pagan directly, the Sheehan one was most certainly taking aim at the players.

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The Vet

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:38 pm

Harry Vallence

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:24 am
Posts: 1217
Location: Melbourne

jimmae wrote:

To be fair, neither of those articles were really having a go at Pagan directly, the Sheehan one was most certainly taking aim at the players.

agreed, but both indicate that the journalistic community are beginning to question:

(a) whether he has any other or new ideas he can try; and/or
(b) whether he can reinvent himself.

Both suggest that they are beginning to see his shelf life.

_________________
"Two roads diverged in a wood,
and I,
I took the one less travelled by,
and that has made all the difference."

Robert Frost

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jimmae

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 3:57 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2005 2:32 pm
Posts: 33043
Location: Back in reality

The Vet wrote:

jimmae wrote:

To be fair, neither of those articles were really having a go at Pagan directly, the Sheehan one was most certainly taking aim at the players.

It's not about whether he can reinvent himself, he's made that move. It's done.

It's about whether it's good enough. I'm sure he has plenty of options to try, he's certainly been trying everything outside of game day from all the reports on go-karting, player reviews and soccer games.

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:00 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Sorry.. its about whether he has any credibility left in the eyes of the playing group or not.
Are they playing for him???

They do not believe in him!!!

time to go !!!

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

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jim

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:08 pm

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8229

Jarusa wrote:

It is too early in our development phase to change coaches. It would be a waste (in more ways than one) at this stage.

I don't see Pagan killing the kids too much ATM, the time for a new coach is in a year or 2 to give the list the oomph. Has to be recently out of the game though.

We can't wait that long. The Collingwood and St.Kilda games or any of the previous 3 years not told you anything. Imagine another couple of years of this.

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jim

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:09 pm

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8229

Synbad wrote:

Sorry.. its about whether he has any credibility left in the eyes of the playing group or not.
Are they playing for him???

They do not believe in him!!!

time to go !!!

Exactly!!

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dannyboy

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg

Is that a fact Synners or just your belief?

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

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Sydney Blue

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:15 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21660
Location: North of the border

dannyboy wrote:

Is that a fact Synners or just your belief?

Danny you were there on Sunday do they look like they believe in what they are doing

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

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Rod Waddell

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:28 pm

Harry Vallence

Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:49 am
Posts: 1651

But Denis has won a premiership............albeit a pre season one :wink:

Surely the players were playing for him back then?

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 4:41 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

dannyboy wrote:

Is that a fact Synners or just your belief?

Dannyboy.. its fact!!!

The board should be held in contempt if they do not act....its negligence .

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

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jim

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:03 pm

Wayne Johnston

Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:21 pm
Posts: 8229

Rod Waddell wrote:

But Denis has won a premiership............albeit a pre season one :wink:

Surely the players were playing for him back then?

As you said....."back then". Not pre-2004 and not again post Wizzer. That's virtually 2 groups of players lost.

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Dukes

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:08 pm

Harry Vallence

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:17 pm
Posts: 1639
Location: Within the old Carlton recruting zone ...

Sydney Blue wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

Is that a fact Synners or just your belief?

Danny you were there on Sunday do they look like they believe in what they are doing

Were YOU there against Essendon* - did they look they believed in what they were doing then

_________________
In WADA we trust

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Synbad

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:10 pm

Bruce Doull

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:27 am
Posts: 33188
Location: In the box.

Dukes wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

Is that a fact Synners or just your belief?

Danny you were there on Sunday do they look like they believe in what they are doing

Were YOU there against Essendon* - did they look they believed in what they were doing then

Isnt that the day Sticks spoke to them???

_________________
Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

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Sydney Blue

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:33 pm

Alex Jesaulenko

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 2:15 pm
Posts: 21660
Location: North of the border

Dukes wrote:

Sydney Blue wrote:

dannyboy wrote:

Is that a fact Synners or just your belief?

Danny you were there on Sunday do they look like they believe in what they are doing

Were YOU there against Essendon* - did they look they believed in what they were doing then

Take out our best 6 and put back in there best 6 and what would the result be
We beat a side on its knees with injuries

Quick crack open the champas

_________________
If you allow the Government to change the Laws in an emergency
They will create an Emergency to change the Laws

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Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:38 pm

formerly Josh Kaplan

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:19 pm
Posts: 2187

None of you will believe me but I dont really care,
anyways one of our first year players doesn't "take into account" any of the anti Denis talk around the place, but the senior players "often talk about how disenchanted they are."

Worrying times- I like Denis a lot as a bloke- seems a decent man and I odnt for one second fault the maount of emotional strain and effort he has put into rebuilding this footy club. But if there is such an inherent dislike for his authority, something needs to be done about it.

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kennyhunter

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:46 pm

Rod Ashman

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:35 pm
Posts: 2438

Don't know why anyone wouldn't believe yopu on that score, JK. Sad times indeed.

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dannyboy

Post subject:

Posted: Tue May 23, 2006 5:47 pm

Ken Hunter

Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 11:12 am
Posts: 10414
Location: Coburg

so

this bloke comes in to set things straight

does so but

makes enemies

those enemeies remain

and mutter

and mutter

and so this bloke never gets the clean slate

new bloke comes in

gets the advantages of things being set straight

no enemies

and a clean slate

makes more sense than the can't coach bullshit.

_________________
This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

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