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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:17 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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CK go to cartltonfc.com check out the players list and be :shock: be very :shock: :shock: :shock: ed

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:57 pm 
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Serge Silvagni
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Electric Blue wrote:
:? You should check out Warren more often! :wink:


No thanks, I prefer talking the real stuff, not dribble.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 5:21 pm 
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Harry Vallence

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Synbad wrote:
Should also add that just because StKilda have been a crap side for 120 years of their existence doesnt mean theyre more crap than us today.
In case you havent noticed BM because i know your head is up in the clouds and the air is very thin up there...

Were at the bottom right now.
StKilda have a very talented list full of early pick talent.
We have a huge debt ( it willo be addressed) but StKilda are on the way to another ONE MILION DOLLAR PROFIT and their debt is just about wiped off.
Would they have wiped that debt off and made those kinds of profits with a team that was perennially 10th??????

When youre selling something BM.. you get the most money for selling
something that people want.The simple demand and supply.TV stations and corporates want to support StKilda but not North...
StKilda = talent=exciting football = $$$$$$$$$
North/Carlton= dour footy limited talent= Hard times...

Crap lists that try hard is not what people want to pay money for.

Who wants to watch Wayne Arthurs go down in the a closely fought 5 setter second round of a Grand Prix tournament in if you can watch Nadal ???


If that is true synbad then we are in a lot of trouble. The question is what can we do to make itnot come to fruitation. The simple solution is for us to WIN. Winning fixes everything and thats why if we tank we are screwd. We are just digging ourselves deeper into the hole. Draft picks wont fix nothing if we decide that tanking is the way forward. We may have had a shit year but the Wizard CUp merely gave us small glimse of the future. I reckon succes is just around the corner. We win a half-dozen to 8 or so games next year. Get our gun in a strong draft and then continue the climb to premiership success

For once lets at least TRY to look at the postitives


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StKilda = talent=exciting football = $$$$$$$$$


his may be true but they still have only one falg in god knows how long and if they dont get one within the next 2-3 years there list will fall apart.


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 Post subject: Bluemark
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 6:57 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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A serious question for you BM.You say you have seen dozens of guns blow it because of attitude,and dozens of so so's make it coz there attitude was spot on.Could you name the dozen's of so so's that have made it........................Sorry mate,but i also have been involved in sport and no matter how good your intentions,if you aint got it,you aint got it no matter how hard you try............But i agree there is talent wasted coz of attitude.A lot have could have been's out there.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 7:14 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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The best picks in the draft are not necessary the best players in the long run anyway.The thing the club has got to get right is addressing the areas of need(Ruckman,pace in the middle,contested marks in defence).Even then I sometimes reckon that it can be luck.A player can be average at 17 and a gun at 23.It all depends on the rate they learn and develop.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:06 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Quote:
StKilda = talent=exciting football = $$$$$$$$$


Football today is about as exciting as a dose of syphyllis. It is built on speed not skill. It's built of big blokes not not blokes full of strength. This season is a pefect example of how crap all teams have been and it's a real wonder that there is such a margin between them all in the first place!

Even the great Jezza says he won't go to the footy becasue it's crap.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:29 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Stretcher Bearer wrote:
Quote:
StKilda = talent=exciting football = $$$$$$$$$


Football today is about as exciting as a dose of syphyllis. It is built on speed not skill. It's built of big blokes not not blokes full of strength. This season is a pefect example of how crap all teams have been and it's a real wonder that there is such a margin between them all in the first place!

Even the great Jezza says he won't go to the footy becasue it's crap.


\Do you ever watch games from the 60s and 70s???

And Locke.. you cant win games if you cant win games...
Its as simple as that.
If you dont have a good list youre not going to go up the ladder significantly.

With the kind of mentality some of you have i wonder if you really believe that if you trained really hard.. and had the "right attitude" ate all the right foods.. gave up the drink and ciggies.. do you believe strongly that you too can win Gold in the 100 meter sprint at the next Olympics???

AUSTRALIA NEEDS YOU!!!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 10:51 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Quote:
\Do you ever watch games from the 60s and 70s???


Yes I do.

That's my point.

The skill and finesse was there. They all may not have been able to run the 100 under 10 seconds but they could play skillful football.
Even with a smoke and a pot after a match.

We recruited and devloped from our zones, not from a bingo parlour.

We scored the sponsors,

We didn't have to lose to do well for a list. Why should we now?

Quote:
With the kind of mentality some of you have i wonder if you really believe that if you trained really hard.. and had the "right attitude" ate all the right foods.. gave up the drink and ciggies.. do you believe strongly that you too can win Gold in the 100 meter sprint at the next Olympics???


Depsite our enthusiasm for the game, AFL Football is nowhere near Olympic competition. Whilst it is also full of a lot of simlar bull, you don't get another chance at the Olympics because you lose on purpose.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:12 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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I once thought I could win Gold at the Olympics...I thnk I was 11 at the time!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:15 pm 
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Bruce Doull
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Stretcher Bearer wrote:
Quote:
\Do you ever watch games from the 60s and 70s???


Yes I do.

That's my point.

The skill and finesse was there. They all may not have been able to run the 100 under 10 seconds but they could play skillful football.
Even with a smoke and a pot after a match.

We recruited and devloped from our zones, not from a bingo parlour.

We scored the sponsors,

We didn't have to lose to do well for a list. Why should we now?

Quote:
With the kind of mentality some of you have i wonder if you really believe that if you trained really hard.. and had the "right attitude" ate all the right foods.. gave up the drink and ciggies.. do you believe strongly that you too can win Gold in the 100 meter sprint at the next Olympics???


Depsite our enthusiasm for the game, AFL Football is nowhere near Olympic competition. Whilst it is also full of a lot of simlar bull, you don't get another chance at the Olympics because you lose on purpose.


And i bet your favourite album of all time is Skyhooks 'Living in the 70s'

AFL might not be Olympic level competition but its still the best competition for football so youre still having to climb the mountain thats available for that particular sport.

Would it make you feel better if i said you can try as hard as you like to represent Australia in field hockey but it doesnt mean you will???
(Just so you can comprehend the argument its easier to go to the Olympics and represent Australia in hockey than play AFL football) :roll:

And no you dont get better players in hockey by finishing last because its another system....

The first step is to understand the system youre in ....

Sheeesh...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:30 pm 
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Ken Hunter
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TheSheik wrote:
Electric Blue wrote:
:? You should check out Warren more often! :wink:


No thanks, I prefer talking the real stuff, not dribble.


Now I'm really confused :?

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 Post subject: BM
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:10 pm 
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Craig Bradley
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Still waiting for those names BM.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 3:20 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Quote:
The first step is to understand the system youre in ....

Sheeesh...


I do.

That's why I think it's a crock that you have to tank the rest of the season to get first dibs at the draft. Where's the compettition in it? It's fake. It rewards mediocrity. It stinks.

If you are indeed crap you will get your draft picks. If you wind you get less. That's the limit of how it should work. Th eidea of deliberaley playing to achieve draft picks whether by throwing games or playing a side you know will lose is gutless.

Given the 'commercialism' of the AFL they should perhaps leave it to who can head hunt the best players- if that means dollars then so be it. You'll either get the player who wants to play for a side because they want to e.g Voss or because the like the $$$. That's how business works.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:41 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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Stretcher Bearer wrote:

If you are indeed crap you will get your draft picks. If you wind you get less. That's the limit of how it should work. Th eidea of deliberaley playing to achieve draft picks whether by throwing games or playing a side you know will lose is gutless.



So...how do you compete against those who deliberately play to achieve high draft picks, (St Kilda), or those who receive $$$ benefits and can retain significant lists, (Brions), or those who live in one/two footbal towns and have vast local resources both financially and talent-wise, ( Eagles).

The pride you are advocating in being 'gutless' is, unfortunately, outdated in accordance with the current system and the administration that implements the current system. Modern premierships are cheap ethically, in a sporting sense, but still, premierships...do you want one or not?


Last edited by Orangewhip on Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:44 pm 
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Craig Bradley

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How do you police the limit of tanking?

C'mon tank police.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:16 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Orangewhip wrote:
Stretcher Bearer wrote:

If you are indeed crap you will get your draft picks. If you wind you get less. That's the limit of how it should work. Th eidea of deliberaley playing to achieve draft picks whether by throwing games or playing a side you know will lose is gutless.



So...how do you compete against those who deliberately play to achieve high draft picks, (St Kilda), or those who receive $$$ benefits and can retain significant lists, (Brions), or those who live in one/two footbal towns and have vast local resources both financially and talent-wise, ( Eagles).

The pride you are advocating in being 'gutless' is, unfortunately, outdated in accordance with the current system and the administration that implements the current system. Modern premierships are cheap ethically, in a sporting sense, but still, premierships...do you want one or not?


What is outdated actually is the current system. Becasue the AFL were so afraid to lose out and teams like Fitzroy sadly disappeared, Sydney was created and a system eventuated that favoured those with little talent. A draft was created that rewarded the meak until such as the powerful could no longer sustain themselves and then became the weak ones gaining a draft pick especially the priorities.

I have seen (not fully) the system used in the NFL using the magic balls concept that increase the chance concept of draft colleges. If not bringing back recuriting zones then this might be the possible alternative.

Yopu police tanking by getting rid of the system that promotes it. The only other system that rewards without effort is the Arts community.

Then again we lost today. I know we didn't tank it but there you go you'll all be happy we got our pick.

Then if we are still shithouse next year you can call for all 22 games to be tanked until we get a good list hey?

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:19 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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What zone would Sydney and Brisbane have?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:32 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Sydney can New South and Brisbane can have Queensland!

E E Eeeesy!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:39 pm 
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Stephen Kernahan
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That'd be fair to them wouldnt it. There's always a plethora of talent in those 2 states


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:06 pm 
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Bruce Comben
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Ah well.

Them's the breaks aint it! It's a real competition or a synthetic one.

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