until this season, most years there pretty much has been two of lance.
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| Author: | blueslander [ Mon May 08, 2006 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Two of him... |
If I hear Pagan or anyone else say "If I only had two of (insert relevant player here - this week it's Lance, sometimes it's Kouta, Stevens or Lappin)" I'll scream. Why can't we have a coach that actually communicates with the members through the media, stop bringing out these stupid cliches that show nothing but contempt for the supporter. We all know that we're short of the cattle or at least our cattle are in the wrong paddock (see the bullants bests this week). But cliches dont help. Just for once I would like to know, from the coach: 1. If we don't have the cattle then what do we need? 2. The players he feel needs to be more accountable. 3. What are his expectations on his players. 4. An honest review of players skills. There is so much speculation on this site about all of these, it would be nice to actually here something from the coach for once. But that is never going to happen, but please Pagan, no more cliches. |
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| Author: | barass [ Mon May 08, 2006 6:20 pm ] |
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why can't we start creating some pressure on the club to be more open with comms than the crap we get fed every week. C'mon, let's make this post topic count and let the club know that we won't put up with it any longer. Say NO to cliches, YES to open and forthright communications from coach and clubs! |
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| Author: | barass [ Mon May 08, 2006 6:21 pm ] |
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sorry, that should read "coach and club" |
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| Author: | The Tyrant [ Mon May 08, 2006 6:57 pm ] |
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if there were 2 of me, at least I wouldn't be lonely |
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| Author: | blueslander [ Mon May 08, 2006 8:47 pm ] |
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If there were two of Lance, we could have traded one last year for another high pick... And I guess everyone is happy enough to be fed this crap for a little while longer (barass the exception). I really had hoped that this would have struck a chord, but I know actually having an open discussion from the coach would remove half the speculation from these forums and mean that some might not be able to reach their 100 posts a day quota. I'll shut up now... |
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| Author: | Sniff Wilson [ Mon May 08, 2006 8:48 pm ] |
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until this season, most years there pretty much has been two of lance.
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| Author: | Synbad [ Mon May 08, 2006 9:16 pm ] |
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If you listen to Denis carefuly you realise he isnt cluey... "wish we had 2 Lances" Duuuuuuuh Fredrick....... if youre wishing ...why stop at 2 Lances?? why not go the full 'hog' and wish for 18 Lances??? Was it Mathews that wanted 18 Koutas???... furk me!!!... how over the salary cap would they have been??? |
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| Author: | Wangers [ Mon May 08, 2006 9:21 pm ] |
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que sera sera 
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| Author: | Lurker Blue [ Mon May 08, 2006 9:27 pm ] |
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blueslander wrote: IAnd I guess everyone is happy enough to be fed this crap for a little while longer (barass the exception).
I really had hoped that this would have struck a chord, but I know actually having an open discussion from the coach would remove half the speculation from these forums and mean that some might not be able to reach their 100 posts a day quota. I think the reason you haven't gotten many replies, is that everyone agrees with you. Usually the long threads are the ones where people have differing views. Also, two and a half hours isn't giving people much time to reply. On the topic at hand, DP comes from the Sheedy school of spin. He's just not as good as the master. I think the most open and honest coach is Neil Craig. He's very frank in his assesment of the game, players, list, etc. |
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| Author: | Headplant [ Mon May 08, 2006 10:00 pm ] |
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I don't expect a coach to go through public player reviews. But I do expect him to show that he has more in his vision than flooding to restrict the blowouts. |
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| Author: | blu944 [ Mon May 08, 2006 10:11 pm ] |
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He says that he wishes he has two of someone so as to convey to the supporters that we are short on talent. Whilst conveying this he is giving guys like Lance - who are performing - a pat on the back yet doesn't single out a specific weak player. If he said we really need Lance down back because we don't have any defenders with real talent, blokes like Thornton would probably take it to heart, and judging by the facial expressions of t-bird when he gets outmarked he strikes me as the sort of bloke who would take a bolt action rifle to the nearest clock tower muttering "I am the angel of death" |
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| Author: | Mickstar [ Tue May 09, 2006 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dennis |
Denis is of the old school Dont complain............Dont explain. And thats good....Why give the press titbits that they twist and turn to suit there own agenda at the time ? I reckon that " give 'em nothin " style is one of Denis's more endearing traits. |
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| Author: | blueslander [ Tue May 09, 2006 8:47 pm ] |
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Mickstar I severly disagree with your comments. Lack of communication is killing us, it makes us a banal commodity. If we are after sponsors, winning members back, etc, then the club/coach have to give us more than cliches. For example we could be the perfect vehicle for an up and coming company to hitch their wagon to. Let me give you a scenario... We know we're a three to five year project. How many business are starting off right this very second with a three to five year plan? By being open and honest we give business people a chance to find their own angles between our product and their image. It is a lot easier to sell a journey if people know roughly what they are going to see on the way. Same with the supporters. Also rumours will come out and nothing within a footy club can be kept private. So thinking that by saying nothing you will give them nothing is just plain wrong. Look at this forum. Nothing to do with the club yet so many times information is posted here that is right on the money. It is naive to the extreme to think that you can be anything less than honest in this day and age. If he does not want to answer questions then he should be honest about it. If he thinks we lack depth in defence say "I think we lack depth in defence" It's not that hard and supporters at least feel that the coach/match committee etc are at least aware of the problem |
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| Author: | Mickstar [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | blueslander |
Not for mine blueslander.But still,ya might be right.Dont think Denis could carry it off.Dont think he is that type. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Tue May 09, 2006 10:30 pm ] |
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The days of treating people like mushrooms are well and truly over... The clubs who reach out to their members are the clubs who will gain the benefits. Were struggling... |
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| Author: | jimmae [ Wed May 10, 2006 12:18 am ] |
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Synbad wrote: The days of treating people like mushrooms are well and truly over...
The clubs who reach out to their members are the clubs who will gain the benefits. Were struggling... While you're right on some levels, berating players on an individual level (unless it's completely obvious to all watching the game) and divulging in-depth reasons behind mistakes might make the fans smile, but it won't help us in the quest for 4 points each week. Ditto for marketing strategies, you're just asking for too much there. Denis and the club probably only need to push for a little bit beyond what they provide at the moment, just to steady the ship, but it's fair to say we don't have a media savy club, like the Hawks, Pies or Richmond. Sometimes enough is provided but they do need to reiterate what they're trying to do with the playing list in a gloss-over type of way, that would certainly satisfy a lot of people on this board. So Synners, go for the middle ground, show us your sway in the communications department and get them encouraging Smorgs and the coaches. 
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| Author: | blueslander [ Wed May 10, 2006 1:44 am ] |
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Do you honestly think that there is anything that Pagan could say in the media that would divulge anything that clubs don't already know? I don't think so. So much preparation goes into each game and there is absolutely nothing we can hide. Pagan's go-long game plan was so transparent and this year's one seems to be just as bad, what we (fans/sponsors/members etc). dont understand is why that we persist with this, why are we afraid to try something new? If we were on top of the ladder, had a myriad of well-drilled set plays that we could switch to at each new situation then I would understand his candour. We do not have that luxury, at the moment we need to get people on the journey with us and this is not the way to do it. I mean just look at the last AGM someone gets onto the Board because they state that they want to make the process more transparent. Of course nothing has changed yet, but it showed that we as fans are wanting to buy into something bigger than tight losses (and the occassional blow-out) this season. |
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| Author: | CK95 [ Wed May 10, 2006 12:29 pm ] |
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| Author: | Kaptain Kouta [ Wed May 10, 2006 12:51 pm ] |
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jimmae wrote: it's fair to say we don't have a media savy club
And winner of "Understatement of the year award" goes to......
Aside from various on-field issues, this would have to be the thing which seems to stop supporters becoming members, and which frustrates supporters and members alike. There are countless people probably willing to help out in this regard, but the club is being very stubborn, and isn't "empowering" it's supporters and members by helping them feel part of the club and part of "The Carlton Family", especially the further you get away from Melbourne. I don't think the club truly appreciates just how difficult it is sometimes to get good information, or any information sometimes, about the club once you're out of Melbourne and Victoria. If they reached out just a little bit, it would make a massive difference. It only requires a quantum change. |
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| Author: | Steve Benson [ Wed May 10, 2006 1:07 pm ] |
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I reckon you make a pretty good point there Kaptain. Even being in Melbourne it's hard to get information about the club. I only joined here after reading the forums for a few weeks because theres some great inside info here. I saw this forum mentioned in The Age, I think, and checked it out. There's nothing worse than the newspapers full of Essendon* and Collingwood rubbish day in day out. A chain's only as strong as it's weakest link. Is Carlton's marketing and communications it's weakest? Looks like it. |
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