TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Pagan leaves it to the players

Here we go again....Pagan blaming the players...never takes responsibility himself...Like the loss against Richmond (his fault Whitnall sent down back) ...Has he ever thought that it is his shit plan that they hate or can't adapt......The sooner he goes the better we will be. My siganture will definitely be on that petition... :lol:

TRueblu the way Pagan is going we may not even have a club to worry about. He is sinking us deeper and deeper, if your happy seeing boring flooding then Im happy for you. But judging by the numbers that have been dropping off I guess they feel the same as me....Boring Boring Boring. :roll:

Carlton coach Denis Pagan believes his players' review of last Sunday's debacle against Collingwood will be a significant step in helping to turn the club's fortunes around.

Rather than be directed by the club's coaching staff, the Carlton players were invited to conduct their own review of the match which they led at half-time by two points before going down by 12 goals.

Pagan said he was pleased that the players' conclusions mirrored those of the coaching staff.

"The exercise was worthwhileâ€¦it was very open, very frank, very positive," Pagan said.

The thing that we didnâ€™t want to do was separate ourselves from the players and say 'you should have done this, you should have done that'.

"They were very good about it and there was some strong direction shown.

"They sat down and identified the things they had to do and I'm sure that given another opportunity they would do it a hell of a lot better.

ubettsya wrote:

Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract?

TruBlueBrad wrote:

ubettsya wrote:

Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract?

If Mitchell is promoted as caretaker Coach in his place we aren't adding any extra in costs.

Quote:

Can't see what the problem is in giving the players the opportunity to identify where they went wrong, which mirrored the coaching staff's assessment anyway, rather than just telling them all off and treating them like children.

They've done similar things before after bad losses and it produced good results.

TruBlueBrad wrote:

ubettsya wrote:

Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract?

If Mitchell is promoted as caretaker Coach in his place we aren't adding any extra in costs.

Author:	blueslander [ Thu May 11, 2006 6:45 am ]
Post subject:	Pagan leaves it to the players
Not sure if this link has been posted before: http://afl.com.au/default.asp?pg=news&s ... eid=264495 Seems like the coach is staying out of it this week. Sounds like Pagan may be losing the players, I mean when the coach says "ok, you don't want me to tell you what to do, work it out yourself" (not a direct quote by the way) it reeks of a loss of confidence from the players. Anyway glad to see that we can still go go-carting after five losses. I guess it cant be seen to be flirting with our form.

Author:	Kaptain Kouta [ Thu May 11, 2006 7:48 am ]
Post subject:
I don't necessarily see it as Denis losing the players. He's been imposing a team hierarchy on the team for a while, and it's obvious that it's out of whack. So, he leaves the team to itself, and lets the players and the natural dynamic of the group settle those who will lead and those who will follow. It's a good move, to let the natural leaders in the team step up, and the ones who have had leadership thrust on them take a half step back. I have no problem with that.

Author:	ubettsya [ Thu May 11, 2006 8:24 am ]
Post subject:
Here we go again....Pagan blaming the players...never takes responsibility himself...Like the loss against Richmond (his fault Whitnall sent down back) ...Has he ever thought that it is his shit plan that they hate or can't adapt......The sooner he goes the better we will be. My siganture will definitely be on that petition...

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Thu May 11, 2006 8:28 am ]
Post subject:
ubettsya wrote: Here we go again....Pagan blaming the players...never takes responsibility himself...Like the loss against Richmond (his fault Whitnall sent down back) ...Has he ever thought that it is his shit plan that they hate or can't adapt......The sooner he goes the better we will be. My siganture will definitely be on that petition... Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract?

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Thu May 11, 2006 8:30 am ]
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This is a good sign . If you have any spare cash put it in The Blues this week . Every other time Pagan has handed it back to the players we have won. Another good sign is that its Womens Week in the AFL and we have the biggest pack Sheilas you have ever seen playing for us Carlton to win this week put your money on it

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

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Author:	ubettsya [ Thu May 11, 2006 8:41 am ]
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TRueblu the way Pagan is going we may not even have a club to worry about. He is sinking us deeper and deeper, if your happy seeing boring flooding then Im happy for you. But judging by the numbers that have been dropping off I guess they feel the same as me....Boring Boring Boring.

Author:	bondiblue [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:08 am ]
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Leadership, dictatorial, old school, arrogant....these are our headlines when referring to either players' or coach's deficiencies. Allright, they go carting to bring some fun back to the group, and the players collectively take ownership and the responsibility to disect their previous disappointment. That's all good news to me. We have to develop leadership, and empowering them to develop this skill and develop as a group is the best way to. Let the players have a go. Give them a break from the same voices, the same cliches, the same post match ritual. Afterall they have been in each others faces since xmas break. It's a great idea in a team environment, and especially so in our current predicament. The part when DP states that the players concluded with the same post mortem as the coach, I would have preferred to hear that from the leadership group. But nonetneless it's a forward move. Like the old saying goes..."a change is as good as a holiday". So hopefully the players have shaken off last weeks nightmare, and are refreshed, refocussed and raring to go. I just hope with this delegation of ownership the players also identify opportunities to improve on our current game plan. Go Blues. Gotta win this one.

Author:	fevolaaaa [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:45 am ]
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Pretty much every time he's done this in the past we've won

Author:	The Tyrant [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:49 am ]
Post subject:
Let Murphy coach for a week

Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Thu May 11, 2006 9:56 am ]
Post subject:
ubettsya wrote: TRueblu the way Pagan is going we may not even have a club to worry about. He is sinking us deeper and deeper, if your happy seeing boring flooding then Im happy for you. But judging by the numbers that have been dropping off I guess they feel the same as me....Boring Boring Boring. I agree that many people aren't happy with the gameplan and the flooding. Anger isn't going to buyout his contract though. He's contracted until the end of 2008 which means another $1.6m owing to him after this season. Even if we could negotiate a buyout figure of say $1m, we dont have that kind of money to even contemplate it.

Author:	BlueWorld [ Thu May 11, 2006 11:09 am ]
Post subject:
Quote: Carlton coach Denis Pagan believes his players' review of last Sunday's debacle against Collingwood will be a significant step in helping to turn the club's fortunes around. Rather than be directed by the club's coaching staff, the Carlton players were invited to conduct their own review of the match which they led at half-time by two points before going down by 12 goals. Pagan said he was pleased that the players' conclusions mirrored those of the coaching staff. "The exercise was worthwhileâ€¦it was very open, very frank, very positive," Pagan said. The thing that we didnâ€™t want to do was separate ourselves from the players and say 'you should have done this, you should have done that'. "They were very good about it and there was some strong direction shown. "They sat down and identified the things they had to do and I'm sure that given another opportunity they would do it a hell of a lot better. Can't see what the problem is in giving the players the opportunity to identify where they went wrong, which mirrored the coaching staff's assessment anyway, rather than just telling them all off and treating them like children. They've done similar things before after bad losses and it produced good results.

Author:	mjonc [ Thu May 11, 2006 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:
TruBlueBrad wrote: ubettsya wrote: Here we go again....Pagan blaming the players...never takes responsibility himself...Like the loss against Richmond (his fault Whitnall sent down back) ...Has he ever thought that it is his shit plan that they hate or can't adapt......The sooner he goes the better we will be. My siganture will definitely be on that petition... Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract? If Mitchell is promoted as caretaker Coach in his place we aren't adding any extra in costs.

Author:	Jarusa [ Thu May 11, 2006 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:
mjonc wrote: TruBlueBrad wrote: ubettsya wrote: Here we go again....Pagan blaming the players...never takes responsibility himself...Like the loss against Richmond (his fault Whitnall sent down back) ...Has he ever thought that it is his shit plan that they hate or can't adapt......The sooner he goes the better we will be. My siganture will definitely be on that petition... Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract? If Mitchell is promoted as caretaker Coach in his place we aren't adding any extra in costs. So Mitchell will be coach until 2008? ... and what about the assistants? How long are their contracts and how much will they cost to pay out?

Author:	budzy [ Thu May 11, 2006 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:
BlueWorld wrote: Quote: Carlton coach Denis Pagan believes his players' review of last Sunday's debacle against Collingwood will be a significant step in helping to turn the club's fortunes around. Rather than be directed by the club's coaching staff, the Carlton players were invited to conduct their own review of the match which they led at half-time by two points before going down by 12 goals. Pagan said he was pleased that the players' conclusions mirrored those of the coaching staff. "The exercise was worthwhileâ€¦it was very open, very frank, very positive," Pagan said. The thing that we didnâ€™t want to do was separate ourselves from the players and say 'you should have done this, you should have done that'. "They were very good about it and there was some strong direction shown. "They sat down and identified the things they had to do and I'm sure that given another opportunity they would do it a hell of a lot better. Can't see what the problem is in giving the players the opportunity to identify where they went wrong, which mirrored the coaching staff's assessment anyway, rather than just telling them all off and treating them like children. They've done similar things before after bad losses and it produced good results. Do you reckon the players submitted reviews consisting of their real thoughts or did they submit reviews that they thought the coaching staff would expect to receive?

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Author:	TruBlueBrad [ Thu May 11, 2006 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:
mjonc wrote: TruBlueBrad wrote: ubettsya wrote: Here we go again....Pagan blaming the players...never takes responsibility himself...Like the loss against Richmond (his fault Whitnall sent down back) ...Has he ever thought that it is his shit plan that they hate or can't adapt......The sooner he goes the better we will be. My siganture will definitely be on that petition... Will you be tipping in some money to pay out his contract? If Mitchell is promoted as caretaker Coach in his place we aren't adding any extra in costs. You'd need to replace Mitchell on the coaching panel, so there's $150k and it might be nice to upgrade Mitchell's salary by 50-100k.