How about instead of people trying to do the ANDY Warhol -5 minutes of
fame by doing a petition or grandstanding by putting the boot into the club/the coach (hello Glen are you there) whilst it is down how about being positive and be a real supporter and put in to the club when its down

Not questioning the right of supporters/members to constructively criticize the performances of the club but there is an appropriate way to do so and a wrong way - the right way is not to publicly add to the clubs humiliation /denigration for your own purposes - there are supporters of 15 other clubs and the media wanting to do that

We all know its easy to be a supporter in the good times but much harder to do it when times are bad -yes the last 2 weeks have been bad - and an old bloke was heard to mutter after getting rained on after the game on that Friday Im not going next week after a performance like that -after studiously avoiding the saturday newspapers -reflected on the murphy and walker goals and of course I went last Sunday - thats what you do
Get to the MCG on Sunday against the bombers -support our team
Just think also about all the people both in here and in our larger supporter base who give their time free to the club in an honorary capacity - they are the real supporters

Onya Frank.

Boohoo !!!

Be positive ?? What about ?? Another bleak 5 years in the football wilderness ??

I believe that those people who are prepared to speak up now and voice their opinion are the real supporters, not those who just sit back and hope that things will work out sometime soon. It's time the 'bleeding hearts' attitude was thrown out the door and we grew some genitalia. In case you haven't noticed, we are the laughing stock of the league right now and look like continuing in that vein for many years to come if we don't make a stand now.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Frank the club are in part responsible for this. It goes with what I was saying in another thread. We the supporters do not feel that the club is communicating honestly with us. We are fed cliches and sound bites instead of open dialogue. The club has to start respecting its members or else the members will revolt (or at least petition/grandstand).

If we knew the road ahead of us and had a coach that invited us on that journey then I am sure that we would all be there is a second, but for me (and it seems others) the thought of another three years of mushrooming with Pagan at the helm is just too much to bear. (although I still disagree with the petition mid-season, that just lacks class).

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"our guest is dressed by hand-me-downs, hair designed by pillow"

Everything is a balance, but there is also a point (and a hard call), when you must not only sit back and support the club, but sometimes offer a fire cracker too.

Members pour money into the club, and many sit back and cop their whack, but we just need more communication.

The only communication we get re: long term development of players, is realistaclly through the selection table, and that at times sends the wrong message.

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Supporting the Blues No Matter What

Ridiculous and idiotic thing to do at this time.Vent your spleen come seasons end.

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All my dangerous friends

What difference does when you vent make???

But a petition to run someone out of a job?????

Just abit over the top ....


I reckon when shit comes to shove the decision will be made.
It has to be made...

I dont have alot of faith in this board..... but i know they will have to make the decision when its there to be made.

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

It's football and no effort of grandstanding will determine the quality of a supporter. It is our club not the club of the individuals who choose to spruik the loudest. in the last 5 years the whinging hasn't changed, nor has the origin, only the target.

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bortaS bIr jablu'DI', reH QaQqu' nay'
-Old Klingon Proverb

I LOVE your expostulations every few months so we all still know your watching us in here
Havent seen such a gratuitous attack on me for a while I think the last time we saw such fulminations from you was when I suggested to keep Houlihan and Fev when Brittain was going to sack them
Sheiky Baby the one of the reasons why we are a laugh stock is that we have carlton people /supporters running the club down continually and this is great fodder for the press - an easy story

As for being a bleeding heart I only bleed navy blue and white but I will continue to promote and be positive about the club and I dont think we will be in the mire for another 5 years -yes a couple of more tough years but we will blossom after that

PS say hello to CG for us will you and

PPS I LOVE IT WHEN YOU CALL ME NAMES
best regrdse

Frank, we don't need to have our supporters running the club down, the new president just did it tonight on the Footy Show. He has said we are in more financial trouble than we ever have and need urgent assistance. Now it is easy to identify it as a spur for people to buy memberships but you know that the papers are going to be all over this one in the morning.

Rather coincidental that the recent president jumped ship just prior to this rather sad but startling news being made public. What are people going to make of that scenario ?? We are a rabble and a laughing stock because we have been poorly managed over the past 15 years and are potentially going to be out of existence by 2010 as a direct result.

And I still say get rid of the Blouse & the Shag.

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GROUND ZERO + DRAFTING YOUTH = SUSTAINED SUCCESS

Well said Frank. I have serious reservations about Pagan but this kind of Richmondesque behaviour is destructive and embarassing. Sheik how does this sort of stuff do anything but reinforce the idea that we are a rabble and a laughing stock?

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill

Great post Frank,

Good on you for standing up for the more balanced view of things against the histrionics & grandstanding of many others on here.
Regards

Ockham

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

How was Cammo grandstanding?

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Writer for SuperCoach Paige www.scpaige.com.au
Twitter - @johnfeeney24

What Frank said.


get behind the team and SUPPORT, loudly. Let the rest of the AFL know we are united in our support of the Carlton Football Club.

G'day Phoenix,

Don't actually recall ever saying that "Cammo" was grandstanding.

Try re-reading my post. I actually said "& grandstanding of many others on here." I don't recall "Cammo" being on here recently when the current round of negativity has been swirling around. It is those on here who are grandstanding that I am referring to.

Also re-read Frank's initial post. He stated;



My reference to grandstanding was also in response to Frank's post.

Not every post in support of the club or against those who are questioning the club's approach is having a shot at your mate "Cammo". He is entitled to take the position he is, just as I am entitled to take the position that what he is doing is ridiculous.

Have a nice day.

Regards
Ockham

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

exactly.....

what exactly is the issue with the petition. Jarusa is incapable of explaning it to me, so hopefully one of you can.

Is it his opinion that is wrong? his method? if so, what ABOUT the method is wrong? the fact that its getting media coverage? And, if so, in what way is that a bad thing?

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Love Cricket? Love me

Tyrant,

I generally don’t argue simply for the sake of an argument.

We are diametrically opposed on this issue.

No matter what I say you will counter it with an opposing view, good for you that you have the time to do so.

I am of the view that you (the Club) do all that you can to maintain your dignity during turmoil.

All should be done to correct a position when it is running out of control. There are ways in which this can be achieved without further undermining the fabric/reputation/good name of the Club. From my experience, the best way to achieve this is to agitate for change away from the media spotlight.

Attracting media attention provides competitors with a free opportunity to further denigrate your brand. It allows potential suitors to again query the lack of professionalism of an organisation.

If changes are required, then make them. Agitate for what you believe in by all means, but why do it in such a manner that belittles the Club and also belittles the agitator in the eyes of opposition supporters and those who disagree with the agitator.

regards

Ockham

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A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in.

I was actually asking questions and hoping for some answers... so thanks for your candour.

I take it, therefore, that the main issue here is a "branding one"... that you (and others) believe that excess media on division is a poor reflection on the brand.

Could I assume, therefore, that if Cammo was able to achieve his intention (getting signatures) without it leaking to the media, and presenting it to the board, that that would be ok?

Just asking the question... its not rhetorical... any answers would be appreciated

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Love Cricket? Love me

It can be argued that this is a grandstanding post and that youre grandstanding that youre a better supporter than others???

This is a forum....!!!.. simple as that.

The idea of a forum is to bellow out your views ....

Wanna hold hands, stare into each others eyes and sing Koombayah???

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

It would make a nice change Synbad

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"Whoever said you can't buy happiness forgot about puppies." - Gene Hill