TalkingCarlton :: View topic

After just having watched the Carlton v Essendon* game (Thanks Paully and Willie) I am amazed to see Carlton's forward structure. Don't we have a forward's coach?

Fev could have kicked 12 on the weekend if other players got out of his way and stopped chopping off his leads. Fisher would be playing this week if he had kept the area clear.

I understand that a forward line needs options, but it is not creating options if everyone leads to the same space. It creates a contest.

I think that Fev is showing this year he can be a genuine full forward (ala Locket/Dunstall) if given the space to lead into.

I don't want to revert to Pagan's paddoch but surely there must be a happy compromise.

In the last quarter Fev got a bit more space and look at the result.

On that note Kennedy, it was pleasing to see, was one of the few that did not chop off the big guys lead. Well done.

then again, maybe if these kids toughened up a bit (instead of worrying about their hair, manicures, designer clothes, drug habits etc) pagan would have more to work with. :twisted:

get them to get dirty hands!!!

get a bit of passion for the footy club back! a bit of pride!

2005 - bomb it long to the goal square

Change game plan

2006 - find an option. dont bomb it long.

I reckon the players are still confused by the change of game plan and dont know a good thing when they see it - fev on that 6 foot nothing slowcoach was always going to be a good bet.

If we had radio links between players and coach, you wouldn't have to worry about these broad orders. Every player could be told what to do in the specific circumstances whether it be a short pass or a long kick to a target or space.

SOS wrote:

That's where John Barnes comes in handy for Sheedy :wink:

At least the F@%&#! forwards were in the F@%&#! forward line.

No cigar maybe but a big improvement nonetheless and ooooohhh look we won the game... :shock:

Author:	blueslander [ Tue May 16, 2006 7:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Get out the way
After just having watched the Carlton v Essendon* game (Thanks Paully and Willie) I am amazed to see Carlton's forward structure. Don't we have a forward's coach? Fev could have kicked 12 on the weekend if other players got out of his way and stopped chopping off his leads. Fisher would be playing this week if he had kept the area clear. I understand that a forward line needs options, but it is not creating options if everyone leads to the same space. It creates a contest. I think that Fev is showing this year he can be a genuine full forward (ala Locket/Dunstall) if given the space to lead into. I don't want to revert to Pagan's paddoch but surely there must be a happy compromise. In the last quarter Fev got a bit more space and look at the result. On that note Kennedy, it was pleasing to see, was one of the few that did not chop off the big guys lead. Well done.

Author:	Effes [ Tue May 16, 2006 7:48 pm ]
Post subject:
It was amazing to see us go twice to Fev wide on the flank - leaving him with a very hard shot Wasn't helped by slow movement allowing McPhee to drop in the hole

Author:	Wolfe [ Tue May 16, 2006 8:06 pm ]
Post subject:
Worst prob i saw was that players still failed to se Fev on out with J Reynolds in the goalsquare happened a few times prob Magrath was most obvious when Fev was one out in the goal square and he chipped short to get it cut off and run out of the Bomber defence Yep Fev could have kicked another 4 goals i reckon if the guys realised and looked further down the ground... Shows how good Murph is and how much he reads the play and can see a contest in Fevs favour

Author:	Chitty's Finger [ Tue May 16, 2006 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:
2005 - bomb it long to the goal square Change game plan 2006 - find an option. dont bomb it long. I reckon the players are still confused by the change of game plan and dont know a good thing when they see it - fev on that 6 foot nothing slowcoach was always going to be a good bet.

Author:	China Blues [ Tue May 16, 2006 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Get out the way
You're not alone in those thoughts. See this post from the Fisher's injury post. Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:32 pm Post subject: Watched the replay last night and it seems to me that Carlton would do well to leave Fev one out in the goal square with space around him to lead into, and get the rest of the forwards the hell away from Fev. The commentators on CH 9 also seemed to be staggered that we were limiting Fev's potential impact by allowing the forward line to be so congested with Carlton players and boxing Fev in. Fisher needs to keep well away from Fev, and provide a target further up the ground and drag his opponent with him to stop himself being steamrolled by his own team mate, and prevent his opponent from manning off and double teaming Fev in the goal square. Hurry back soon Fish we need to get our forward line structure and plays settled, to really keep the pressure on the opposition every week. _________________ A Blues Supporter - not a Blues Bagger. blueslander wrote: After just having watched the Carlton v Essendon* game (Thanks Paully and Willie) I am amazed to see Carlton's forward structure. Don't we have a forward's coach? Fev could have kicked 12 on the weekend if other players got out of his way and stopped chopping off his leads. Fisher would be playing this week if he had kept the area clear. I understand that a forward line needs options, but it is not creating options if everyone leads to the same space. It creates a contest. I think that Fev is showing this year he can be a genuine full forward (ala Locket/Dunstall) if given the space to lead into. I don't want to revert to Pagan's paddoch but surely there must be a happy compromise. In the last quarter Fev got a bit more space and look at the result. On that note Kennedy, it was pleasing to see, was one of the few that did not chop off the big guys lead. Well done.

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Get out the way http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10283	Page 1 of 2

Author:	blueslander [ Tue May 16, 2006 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:
Sorry China missed that in the Fish thread.

Author:	China Blues [ Tue May 16, 2006 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:
No worries mate, just trying to offer some support to the view you put forward. Great minds think alike! or is it a case of Fools never differ!

Author:	Ponkstar [ Wed May 17, 2006 1:54 am ]
Post subject:
I noticed too that big run by Stevo up the wing in the last quarter where he had about 5 bounces and simply lost the ball without even getting in a kick was caused by one of our players (either Kennedy or Waite I think) basically standing in his way. He had to dodge around them and lost the ball while bouncing. It's a confidence thing I think. The boys are still getting to know each other up to a point due to lack of defined roles and inconsistency with the game plan.

Author:	The Tyrant [ Wed May 17, 2006 8:49 am ]
Post subject:
always shits me, this..... completely agree... and especially in the NAB cup/preseason... players consistently leading into the same places. crappy coaching

Author:	Blue Meany [ Wed May 17, 2006 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:
probably doesn't belong here, but what can you do? there seems to be a theme of bagging the coach around here. any suggestions for a replacement? then again, maybe if these kids toughened up a bit (instead of worrying about their hair, manicures, designer clothes, drug habits etc) pagan would have more to work with. get them to get dirty hands!!! get a bit of passion for the footy club back! a bit of pride!

Author:	budzy [ Wed May 17, 2006 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:
Blue Meany wrote: then again, maybe if these kids toughened up a bit (instead of worrying about their hair, manicures, designer clothes, drug habits etc) pagan would have more to work with. get them to get dirty hands!!! get a bit of passion for the footy club back! a bit of pride! ...they should all stick with the basic mullett ya reckon Blue Meany? E C DUB, E C DUB!!!

Author:	Blue Meany [ Wed May 17, 2006 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:
now yr talkin' budzy. there are few things the old mullet can't fix. well, except for gehrig he is beyond salvation

Author:	SOS [ Wed May 17, 2006 1:53 pm ]
Post subject:
Athorn the Wonderkid wrote: 2005 - bomb it long to the goal square Change game plan 2006 - find an option. dont bomb it long. I reckon the players are still confused by the change of game plan and dont know a good thing when they see it - fev on that 6 foot nothing slowcoach was always going to be a good bet. This is a good example of the difficulties of coaching. If you had 22 players in a match who were experienced, skillful, and composed players with great footy brains, you could be very flexible as a coach. The problem is that most of the players a coach has on match day aren't. And not many of them make good decisions. It would be nice to be able to tell the players to use the "best option". But if you have a young player whose kicking isn't so flash and is worried about turning the ball over, you have to expect that he will try to chip the ball 20 metres to a teammate rather than try to kick 50 m to a full forward when there are loose defenders who might take advantage of a bad kick. But if you try to force the same player to kick long in preference, he will also do this when the full-forward is surrounded by loose men (or even worse he will kick the ball long even though no forwards are there at all). Whatever instructions you give players, you will find them selecting bad options. That's why players like Diesel were so good. You wouldn't bother telling him how to play - he would select the best option without problems. If we had radio links between players and coach, you wouldn't have to worry about these broad orders. Every player could be told what to do in the specific circumstances whether it be a short pass or a long kick to a target or space.

Author:	CK95 [ Wed May 17, 2006 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:
SOS wrote: If we had radio links between players and coach, you wouldn't have to worry about these broad orders. Every player could be told what to do in the specific circumstances whether it be a short pass or a long kick to a target or space. That's where John Barnes comes in handy for Sheedy

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC + 10 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	The Tyrant [ Wed May 17, 2006 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:
CK95 wrote: SOS wrote: If we had radio links between players and coach, you wouldn't have to worry about these broad orders. Every player could be told what to do in the specific circumstances whether it be a short pass or a long kick to a target or space. That's where John Barnes comes in handy for Sheedy or experience! I reckon Fisher should be tried down back this year..... Brad Fisher = Paul Roos (but not as good a kick)

Author:	Blue Meany [ Wed May 17, 2006 2:17 pm ]
Post subject:
perhaps the problem is that we don't have footballers anymore, we have athletes. most of these kids don't have a footballer's brain and don't understand how to read the play.

Author:	GWS [ Wed May 17, 2006 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:
At least the @#$%&! forwards were in the @#$%&! forward line. No cigar maybe but a big improvement nonetheless and ooooohhh look we won the game...

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Wed May 17, 2006 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:
GWS wrote: At least the F@%&#! forwards were in the F@%&#! forward line. No cigar maybe but a big improvement nonetheless and ooooohhh look we won the game... Now we got them in there we just need to teach Fev to organise them the way Lance does down back . But I feel a Ultra flood, King Tide coming this week and Fev will be left talking to himself again

Author:	Wolfister [ Wed May 17, 2006 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:
It also doesn't help that the opposition drop 2 or 3 back onto Fevs, and then the spare 2 that we have go back to help Fev when the ball comes back down... they either get in his way, or get in trouble for not helping out a 3 on 1 situation... The obvious answer to that is, why aren't those spare 2 creating an option elsewhere... as we know though, with the various degrees of flooding that goes on, that's easier said than done...

Author:	blueslander [ Wed May 17, 2006 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:
GWS I think you're right, watching Sunday's game was a great improvement on watching the other games this year as we backed ourselves and played offensive footy for the most part. St Kilda can't really cope with the flood and when hard running teams like Geelong et al push them then they can't cope so I reckon that whoever said we're in for a king tide this week might be right. Also there is a domino effect in footy. When we have players that command no respect from opposition then we effectively give them a free man. I have watched a couple of games this year where the opposition has basically conceded that Deluca will get the pill, as they know that he does absolutely no damage with the ball once he gets it. Until at least all our players on the pitch are competitive then we will be behind the eightball in most matches. I guess Saturday's game was great to see because it actually meant that our problems were less obvious than the week before.