TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Our List Moving Forward

Our List is weak. So everybody keeps telling us......
We need to draft young talent, That is obvious.....

I've stated the obvious , No Doubt , but in order to for us to turn our fortunes around our list needs serious reshaping.
We all have opinions about the blokes that will be delisted or moved on

Names such as Bryan, Chambers, Longmuir, Prenda, Teague. No point having them if you're not playing them. ( MC/Coach thinks not up to it ). So bye bye to them, i'm suggesting, and guessing, gone.

Now we have the guys who maybe just maybe might be able to find new homes... Sporn, Davies, Wiggins( great effort today though ) and Livo.. But what do we really expect we'd get for them ? Not a great deal, some 3 rounders in the draft at best maybe, or absolutely nothing..

Which brings me to the next group of players who might just be better off moved on, for the benefit of the club. Deluca, Houla, Fisher , Bentick and Lance.

Now i'm not advocating that we trade the above, with the exception of Deluca, (if he holds any currency at all)..
BUT how do we make improvements to our list without giving up something.

Deluca, might just make it one day, but we can't afford to carry him. Deluca on a better list becomes a better player, and i think Geelong would be an ideal place for Archie.

Houla well in order to get something you need to give something. Houla fits this mould, His silky skills would be greatly appreciated at a stronger club. Collingwood, or even St Kilda would suit Houla.. ( I Say St Kilda as they traded for Fiora and Houla IMO is a better player than Fiora )

Fisher is proving to be injury prone and although i am a fan of his, i think that with Fev, Waite and Kennedy we have our bases covered in the front half. A tough call but our club needs to make tough calls.

AB , well the guy does try and does go in and under to get the pill. But i think in the long term if the club is committed to Blackwell and Murphy then he is one onballer young enough to be snapped up by another club. Again in order to get something we need to give.

Lance, well Lance , lance lance. You are not only one of our best this year, but you are also our Prized Jewell in trade bait. Do we trade you ?? Tough call super tough call. And no matter what pro and anti Lance people say here, i'd be happy if he stayed and equally happy if we traded him. But he would get us a first rounder...

So all up, we look at turning over a total of 12/13 Players ( Lance the debatable one ).

13 Players... Mmmmmm....

But will it be enough to reshape our list ? and if we do go down the hardline and do it , how long do we think it will take for this club to really start stringing wins together? How long before we are at least consistently competitive.

I personally think that the time has come for this club to set a standard. Our list has to change, players have to go ( Stating the obvious again ) and if this does not change our fortunes come Pagans contract renewal, Pagan will go down as our favourite waste of time.. Boot To Pagan and bring in " The Real Supercoach " ( Who knows who that will be ? )

But if we don't see a turn in fortunes with the reshaping of our list, we'll be able to move Pagan on also. If Pagan can't turn a new list around then he does not deserve to be coaching. The true test for Pagan is not just now, but what happens through this contract.

And we think our problems are our fininacials ...Don't kid yourself this club currently lacks Leadership, Character and Real direction with purpose. Primarily because we have too many passengers.

Oh Well I've said my bit... :-D

Likely changes to the list
Bryan
chambers
longmuir
prendergast (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him)
teague
davies
livingston (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him)
deluca (trade for anything if possible)
French (appears unlikely to regain his spot at this stage)

On trades
Deluca - I'd take anything - 4th rounder?
Stevens - take anything in the 2nd round
Fev - 2 first round picks including one within the top 6 (highly contentious trade as he IS our best player atm but we desperately need the picks)

You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentick ?? Why ??

Tractor Boy wrote:

You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentick ?? Why ??

1) Because he is prone to fits of sillyness
2) Few other players have market value over the age of 24, so if we were to trade for some decent picks, they'd probably be it along with Whitnall.

And why didnt our best ruckman play today against a side struggling in the ruck???

Id definitely trade/ delist Saddington...!!!.. good bloke.. heart in the right place as far as a human being is concenred but does he really have to pull out of contests EACH week???

A 194 cm Houla...with a bung knee...!!!

??

Delist or Trade - for picks only:

Livo
Saddington
Teague
Mcgrath
Chambers
Longmuir
Deluca
Bryan
Prenda
Bannister
Wiggins
Sporn
Bentick
Carrazzo

Get rif of the above in one hit.

Synbad wrote:

And why didnt our best ruckman play today against a side struggling in the ruck???

Because we want three draft picks in the first 20? It's the only reason I can think of.

4thchicken wrote:

You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentic

?? Why ??

Fev and Lance have been our best players. They wont be traded. If we didn't have them in the team we'd be as bad as Fitzroy and the Bad News Bears.

We have to be smart with our draft picks. Keep them and don't trade them for hacks like Chambers, Longmuir and Saddington.

Let us at some point see the kids. Hartlett, Bower, Jackson and Flint ( if there are LTI ).

Try and get Knights from the Crows in Pre- Season Draft

Delist or Trade - for picks only:

Livo
Saddington
Teague
Mcgrath
Chambers
Longmuir
Deluca
Bryan
Prenda
Bannister
Wiggins
Sporn
Bentick
Carrazzo

Get rif of the above in one hit. For one reason or another they aint up to it. Can't beleive we kept half those blocks for this year.

If we can get late draft picks for any of them they should do it. Stack the list up with kids, that would atleast show us the future instead of the past every time those duds run out onto the field.

bax wrote:

Delist or Trade - for picks only:

Livo
Saddington
Teague
Mcgrath
Chambers
Longmuir
Deluca
Bryan
Prenda
Bannister
Wiggins
Sporn
Bentick
Carrazzo

Get rif of the above in one hit.

That's 14 players. I don't think there is any chance of that happening. 9 or 10 would be the most IMO.

Tractor Boy wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentic

?? Why ??

Fev - yes, ahead of lance - for the reasons of trade value and on field mentoring skills. There is no way that lance would nab the 2 first round picks that I'm looking for in terms of the rebuild (and nothing less than what has been specified). Lance alone would probably nab pick 10 at best. Fev might nab the 2 first round picks - ie dogs might look at us and think Fev kicked 4g5 out for 4g10 - imagine what he could do with us and then move heaven and earth for Fev.

Dont think we can afford to lose both Fev/lance atm given fisher/waites injury histories and kennedy is yet to be established and in terms of captaincy Lance offers the club the best short term option (3-5 yrs).

Stevens v bentick - Taking into account trade value, age, player type and salary cap space then Stevens is the better option for trade - I would want 2nd round (preferably early 2nd round as opposed to late) or better. Bentick is still on the improve whereas stevens is static. I'd keep bentick at least an extra yr to see how he and blackwell develops. Especially given that kouta is likely to go this yr.

In terms of actual trades if we assume current ladder positions as final then as examples

Fev (+deluca if they want) -> dogs
dogs pick 1 (12 overall)
dogs pick 2 + 15-25 player -> lions/geelong
lions/geelong pick 1 (5/6) -> carlton

stevens -> collingwood
collingwood pick 2 (32 overall assuming 1 PP to dons) + player 20-25 -> port/dons
dons PP or port 2nd pick (17-19) -> carlton

Tractor Boy wrote:

4thchicken wrote:

You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentic

?? Why ??

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Sun May 21, 2006 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Our List Moving Forward
Our List is weak. So everybody keeps telling us...... We need to draft young talent, That is obvious..... I've stated the obvious , No Doubt , but in order to for us to turn our fortunes around our list needs serious reshaping. We all have opinions about the blokes that will be delisted or moved on Names such as Bryan, Chambers, Longmuir, Prenda, Teague. No point having them if you're not playing them. ( MC/Coach thinks not up to it ). So bye bye to them, i'm suggesting, and guessing, gone. Now we have the guys who maybe just maybe might be able to find new homes... Sporn, Davies, Wiggins( great effort today though ) and Livo.. But what do we really expect we'd get for them ? Not a great deal, some 3 rounders in the draft at best maybe, or absolutely nothing.. Which brings me to the next group of players who might just be better off moved on, for the benefit of the club. Deluca, Houla, Fisher , Bentick and Lance. Now i'm not advocating that we trade the above, with the exception of Deluca, (if he holds any currency at all).. BUT how do we make improvements to our list without giving up something. Deluca, might just make it one day, but we can't afford to carry him. Deluca on a better list becomes a better player, and i think Geelong would be an ideal place for Archie. Houla well in order to get something you need to give something. Houla fits this mould, His silky skills would be greatly appreciated at a stronger club. Collingwood, or even St Kilda would suit Houla.. ( I Say St Kilda as they traded for Fiora and Houla IMO is a better player than Fiora ) Fisher is proving to be injury prone and although i am a fan of his, i think that with Fev, Waite and Kennedy we have our bases covered in the front half. A tough call but our club needs to make tough calls. AB , well the guy does try and does go in and under to get the pill. But i think in the long term if the club is committed to Blackwell and Murphy then he is one onballer young enough to be snapped up by another club. Again in order to get something we need to give. Lance, well Lance , lance lance. You are not only one of our best this year, but you are also our Prized Jewell in trade bait. Do we trade you ?? Tough call super tough call. And no matter what pro and anti Lance people say here, i'd be happy if he stayed and equally happy if we traded him. But he would get us a first rounder... So all up, we look at turning over a total of 12/13 Players ( Lance the debatable one ). 13 Players... Mmmmmm.... But will it be enough to reshape our list ? and if we do go down the hardline and do it , how long do we think it will take for this club to really start stringing wins together? How long before we are at least consistently competitive. I personally think that the time has come for this club to set a standard. Our list has to change, players have to go ( Stating the obvious again ) and if this does not change our fortunes come Pagans contract renewal, Pagan will go down as our favourite waste of time.. Boot To Pagan and bring in " The Real Supercoach " ( Who knows who that will be ? ) But if we don't see a turn in fortunes with the reshaping of our list, we'll be able to move Pagan on also. If Pagan can't turn a new list around then he does not deserve to be coaching. The true test for Pagan is not just now, but what happens through this contract. And we think our problems are our fininacials ...Don't kid yourself this club currently lacks Leadership, Character and Real direction with purpose. Primarily because we have too many passengers. Oh Well I've said my bit...

Author:	jimmae [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:
ie. Who should we delist? Definitely as of right now: Teague (if possible) Davies Chambers Bryan Longmuir Prendergast So that's 6 right there. Batson deserves more of a chance on the senior list than Bryan at the moment. He has skills too and does a bit more than stand in a spot for the ball.

Author:	Taff [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Our List Moving Forward
Tractor Boy wrote: Our List is weak. So everybody keeps telling us...... We need to draft young talent, That is obvious..... I've stated the obvious , No Doubt , but in order to for us to turn our fortunes around our list needs serious reshaping. We all have opinions about the blokes that will be delisted or moved on Names such as Bryan, Chambers, Longmuir, Prenda, Teague. No point having them if you're not playing them. ( MC/Coach thinks not up to it ). So bye bye to them, i'm suggesting, and guessing, gone. Now we have the guys who maybe just maybe might be able to find new homes... Sporn, Davies, Wiggins( great effort today though ) and Livo.. But what do we really expect we'd get for them ? Not a great deal, some 3 rounders in the draft at best maybe, or absolutely nothing.. Which brings me to the next group of players who might just be better off moved on, for the benefit of the club. Deluca, Houla, Fisher , Bentick and Lance. Now i'm not advocating that we trade the above, with the exception of Deluca, (if he holds any currency at all).. BUT how do we make improvements to our list without giving up something. Deluca, might just make it one day, but we can't afford to carry him. Deluca on a better list becomes a better player, and i think Geelong would be an ideal place for Archie. Houla well in order to get something you need to give something. Houla fits this mould, His silky skills would be greatly appreciated at a stronger club. Collingwood, or even St Kilda would suit Houla.. ( I Say St Kilda as they traded for Fiora and Houla IMO is a better player than Fiora ) Fisher is proving to be injury prone and although i am a fan of his, i think that with Fev, Waite and Kennedy we have our bases covered in the front half. A tough call but our club needs to make tough calls. AB , well the guy does try and does go in and under to get the pill. But i think in the long term if the club is committed to Blackwell and Murphy then he is one onballer young enough to be snapped up by another club. Again in order to get something we need to give. Lance, well Lance , lance lance. You are not only one of our best this year, but you are also our Prized Jewell in trade bait. Do we trade you ?? Tough call super tough call. And no matter what pro and anti Lance people say here, i'd be happy if he stayed and equally happy if we traded him. But he would get us a first rounder... So all up, we look at turning over a total of 12/13 Players ( Lance the debatable one ). 13 Players... Mmmmmm.... But will it be enough to reshape our list ? and if we do go down the hardline and do it , how long do we think it will take for this club to really start stringing wins together? How long before we are at least consistently competitive. I personally think that the time has come for this club to set a standard. Our list has to change, players have to go ( Stating the obvious again ) and if this does not change our fortunes come Pagans contract renewal, Pagan will go down as our favourite waste of time.. Boot To Pagan and bring in " The Real Supercoach " ( Who knows who that will be ? ) But if we don't see a turn in fortunes with the reshaping of our list, we'll be able to move Pagan on also. If Pagan can't turn a new list around then he does not deserve to be coaching. The true test for Pagan is not just now, but what happens through this contract. And we think our problems are our fininacials ...Don't kid yourself this club currently lacks Leadership, Character and Real direction with purpose. Primarily because we have too many passengers. Oh Well I've said my bit... Great post TB - it needs to happen but over what time frame? How many can we cull at once?

Author:	4thchicken [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:04 pm ]
Post subject:
Likely changes to the list Bryan chambers longmuir prendergast (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) teague davies livingston (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) deluca (trade for anything if possible) French (appears unlikely to regain his spot at this stage) On trades Deluca - I'd take anything - 4th rounder? Stevens - take anything in the 2nd round Fev - 2 first round picks including one within the top 6 (highly contentious trade as he IS our best player atm but we desperately need the picks)

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:
4thchicken wrote: Likely changes to the list Bryan chambers longmuir prendergast (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) teague davies livingston (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) deluca (trade for anything if possible) French (appears unlikely to regain his spot at this stage) On trades Deluca - I'd take anything - 4th rounder? Stevens - take anything in the 2nd round Fev - 2 first round picks including one within the top 6 (highly contentious trade as he IS our best player atm but we desperately need the picks) You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentick ?? Why ??

TalkingCarlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/

Our List Moving Forward http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10374	Page 1 of 9

Author:	jimmae [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:
Tractor Boy wrote: You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentick ?? Why ?? 1) Because he is prone to fits of sillyness 2) Few other players have market value over the age of 24, so if we were to trade for some decent picks, they'd probably be it along with Whitnall.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:
Trade Fev???...Thats Tripperland stuff.... Trade Fev before a guy who has no real position...????????? Lance is like the kicker on a special teams outfit in a gridiron team... its a pretend position.... You have to handpick his roles and opponents... You cant play him on one guy cos he isnt tall enough.. you cant play him on the next guy cos he isnt fast enough... its like were reading Goldillocks and the three bears... "Elite"???? .... "Champion"???.... "Captain????" Fev for captain!!! Id definitely trade/ delist Saddington...!!!.. good bloke.. heart in the right place as far as a human being is concenred but does he really have to pull out of contests EACH week??? A 194 cm Houla...with a bung knee...!!! were mad!!! And why didnt our best ruckman play today against a side struggling in the ruck???

Author:	bax [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:
Fev and Lance have been our best players. They wont be traded. If we didn't have them in the team we'd be as bad as Fitzroy and the Bad News Bears. We have to be smart with our draft picks. Keep them and don't trade them for hacks like Chambers, Longmuir and Saddington. Let us at some point see the kids. Hartlett, Bower, Jackson and Flint ( if there are LTI ). Try and get Knights from the Crows in Pre- Season Draft Delist or Trade - for picks only: Livo Saddington Teague Mcgrath Chambers Longmuir Deluca Bryan Prenda Bannister Wiggins Sporn Bentick Carrazzo Get rif of the above in one hit. For one reason or another they aint up to it. Can't beleive we kept half those blocks for this year. If we can get late draft picks for any of them they should do it. Stack the list up with kids, that would atleast show us the future instead of the past every time those duds run out onto the field.

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:
jimmae wrote: Tractor Boy wrote: You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentick ?? Why ?? 1) Because he is prone to fits of sillyness 2) Few other players have market value over the age of 24, so if we were to trade for some decent picks, they'd probably be it along with Whitnall. Fev prone to sillyness, compared to Lance prone to Fitness... ?? Tough call .. But i don't agree. I see Fev as a genuine match winner with ability to always kick goals. Lance at best is a great contributor but not a match winner. Stevens ahead of AB would mean we would possibly have no experience at all. Who would marshall our onballers if he left ? But again its all about opinions.

Author:	steve [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:21 pm ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: And why didnt our best ruckman play today against a side struggling in the ruck??? Because we want three draft picks in the first 20? It's the only reason I can think of.

Author:	Electric Blue [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:22 pm ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: Id definitely trade/ delist Saddington...!!!.. good bloke.. heart in the right place as far as a human being is concenred but does he really have to pull out of contests EACH week??? A 194 cm Houla...with a bung knee...!!! ?? Yup, I thought about that today.

Author:	steve [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:
bax wrote: Delist or Trade - for picks only: Livo Saddington Teague Mcgrath Chambers Longmuir Deluca Bryan Prenda Bannister Wiggins Sporn Bentick Carrazzo Get rif of the above in one hit. That's 14 players. I don't think there is any chance of that happening. 9 or 10 would be the most IMO.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:
steve wrote: Synbad wrote: And why didnt our best ruckman play today against a side struggling in the ruck??? Because we want three draft picks in the first 20? It's the only reason I can think of. But two years ago we had to win every game... when we knew how good a former ex players son was who definitely wanted to be drafted by us... and we could have had Franklin to boot..

Author:	4thchicken [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:
Tractor Boy wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Likely changes to the list Bryan chambers longmuir prendergast (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) teague davies livingston (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) deluca (trade for anything if possible) French (appears unlikely to regain his spot at this stage) On trades Deluca - I'd take anything - 4th rounder? Stevens - take anything in the 2nd round Fev - 2 first round picks including one within the top 6 (highly contentious trade as he IS our best player atm but we desperately need the picks) You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentic ?? Why ?? Fev - yes, ahead of lance - for the reasons of trade value and on field mentoring skills. There is no way that lance would nab the 2 first round picks that I'm looking for in terms of the rebuild (and nothing less than what has been specified). Lance alone would probably nab pick 10 at best. Fev might nab the 2 first round picks - ie dogs might look at us and think Fev kicked 4g5 out for 4g10 - imagine what he could do with us and then move heaven and earth for Fev. Dont think we can afford to lose both Fev/lance atm given fisher/waites injury histories and kennedy is yet to be established and in terms of captaincy Lance offers the club the best short term option (3-5 yrs). Stevens v bentick - Taking into account trade value, age, player type and salary cap space then Stevens is the better option for trade - I would want 2nd round (preferably early 2nd round as opposed to late) or better. Bentick is still on the improve whereas stevens is static. I'd keep bentick at least an extra yr to see how he and blackwell develops. Especially given that kouta is likely to go this yr. In terms of actual trades if we assume current ladder positions as final then as examples Fev (+deluca if they want) -> dogs dogs pick 1 (12 overall) dogs pick 2 + 15-25 player -> lions/geelong lions/geelong pick 1 (5/6) -> carlton stevens -> collingwood collingwood pick 2 (32 overall assuming 1 PP to dons) + player 20-25 -> port/dons dons PP or port 2nd pick (17-19) -> carlton

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Author:	barass [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:27 pm ]
Post subject:
bax wrote: Fev and Lance have been our best players. They wont be traded. If we didn't have them in the team we'd be as bad as Fitzroy and the Bad News Bears. We have to be smart with our draft picks. Keep them and don't trade them for hacks like Chambers, Longmuir and Saddington. Let us at some point see the kids. Hartlett, Bower, Jackson and Flint ( if there are LTI ). Try and get Knights from the Crows in Pre- Season Draft Delist or Trade - for picks only: Livo Saddington Teague Mcgrath Chambers Longmuir Deluca Bryan Prenda Bannister Wiggins Sporn Bentick Carrazzo Get rif of the above in one hit. For one reason or another they aint up to it. Can't beleive we kept half those blocks for this year. If we can get late draft picks for any of them they should do it. Stack the list up with kids, that would atleast show us the future instead of the past every time those duds run out onto the field. Spot on bax. You have nominated the players that will never make the grade.

Author:	bax [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:
steve wrote: bax wrote: Delist or Trade - for picks only: Livo Saddington Teague Mcgrath Chambers Longmuir Deluca Bryan Prenda Bannister Wiggins Sporn Bentick Carrazzo Get rif of the above in one hit. That's 14 players. I don't think there is any chance of that happening. 9 or 10 would be the most IMO. Nah. They got a bite the bullet and get rid of anyone that they KNOW IS NOT OF AFL standard. That's it. No more shit on the list. I'm sick of seeing kids comming up on other teams list's that are struggling yet we keep the same filth for 4 - 5 years.

Author:	4thchicken [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:
oh yeah - saddington would be on my list of axable players as well and yes, I know I've kept sporn/wiggins (and would prefer to keep livingston/prendergast)

Author:	Synbad [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:
4thchicken wrote: Tractor Boy wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Likely changes to the list Bryan chambers longmuir prendergast (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) teague davies livingston (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) deluca (trade for anything if possible) French (appears unlikely to regain his spot at this stage) On trades Deluca - I'd take anything - 4th rounder? Stevens - take anything in the 2nd round Fev - 2 first round picks including one within the top 6 (highly contentious trade as he IS our best player atm but we desperately need the picks) You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentic ?? Why ?? Fev - yes, ahead of lance - for the reasons of trade value and on field mentoring skills. There is no way that lance would nab the 2 first round picks that I'm looking for in terms of the rebuild (and nothing less than what has been specified). Lance alone would probably nab pick 10 at best. Fev might nab the 2 first round picks - ie dogs might look at us and think Fev kicked 4g5 out for 4g10 - imagine what he could do with us and then move heaven and earth for Fev. Dont think we can afford to lose both Fev/lance atm given fisher/waites injury histories and kennedy is yet to be established and in terms of captaincy Lance offers the club the best short term option (3-5 yrs). Stevens v bentick - Taking into account trade value, age, player type and salary cap space then Stevens is the better option for trade - I would want 2nd round (preferably early 2nd round as opposed to late) or better. Bentick is still on the improve whereas stevens is static. I'd keep bentick at least an extra yr to see how he and blackwell develops. Especially given that kouta is likely to go this yr. In terms of actual trades if we assume current ladder positions as final then as examples Fev (+deluca if they want) -> dogs dogs pick 1 (12 overall) dogs pick 2 + 15-25 player -> lions/geelong lions/geelong pick 1 (5/6) -> carlton stevens -> collingwood collingwood pick 2 (32 overall assuming 1 PP to dons) + player 20-25 -> port/dons dons PP or port 2nd pick (17-19) -> carlton Tripperland stuff.... Magic mushroom city.... Fev is a star of the game.. the kind that draws people through the gate... He is the face..... he saved us from kicking 5 points for the day... I want another pick more than anyone... but not with Fev right now.. if he loses his appetite to play for us i would... Lance ...???.........Tah tah...!!! Surely Lance can command a top 20/24 pick???? All Australian CHB... Champion .. now elite footballer..smartest footballer in the AFL.. and captaincy material...??? Youd have to think so wouldnt you??

Author:	steve [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:
i'm not disagreeing with you. But we seem to be slow learners. We've kept guys on the list that it seems we have no intention of playing (eg Prenda, Bryan) and others that are going to get last chances of a few games. If it was going to happen, it would have happened last year, or even the year before. I reckon going on the last couple of years they'll do something like promote 3 rookies, draft 6 players in the main draft and 1 in the PSD. I can't see the club being any more gutsy than that.

Author:	Tractor Boy [ Sun May 21, 2006 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:
4thchicken wrote: Tractor Boy wrote: 4thchicken wrote: Likely changes to the list Bryan chambers longmuir prendergast (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) teague davies livingston (not a pagan favourite though given the option I'd keep him) deluca (trade for anything if possible) French (appears unlikely to regain his spot at this stage) On trades Deluca - I'd take anything - 4th rounder? Stevens - take anything in the 2nd round Fev - 2 first round picks including one within the top 6 (highly contentious trade as he IS our best player atm but we desperately need the picks) You'd Trade Fev ahead of Lance ?? Ans Stevens ahead of Bentic ?? Why ?? Fev - yes, ahead of lance - for the reasons of trade value and on field mentoring skills. There is no way that lance would nab the 2 first round picks that I'm looking for in terms of the rebuild (and nothing less than what has been specified). Lance alone would probably nab pick 10 at best. Fev might nab the 2 first round picks - ie dogs might look at us and think Fev kicked 4g5 out for 4g10 - imagine what he could do with us and then move heaven and earth for Fev. Dont think we can afford to lose both Fev/lance atm given fisher/waites injury histories and kennedy is yet to be established and in terms of captaincy Lance offers the club the best short term option (3-5 yrs). Stevens v bentick - Taking into account trade value, age, player type and salary cap space then Stevens is the better option for trade - I would want 2nd round (preferably early 2nd round as opposed to late) or better. Bentick is still on the improve whereas stevens is static. I'd keep bentick at least an extra yr to see how he and blackwell develops. Especially given that kouta is likely to go this yr. In terms of actual trades if we assume current ladder positions as final then as examples Fev (+deluca if they want) -> dogs dogs pick 1 (12 overall) dogs pick 2 + 15-25 player -> lions/geelong lions/geelong pick 1 (5/6) -> carlton stevens -> collingwood collingwood pick 2 (32 overall assuming 1 PP to dons) + player 20-25 -> port/dons dons PP or port 2nd pick (17-19) -> carlton Although i still don't agree with you, i see your point, but if the club took your "options " who would be our on field leaders. Lance stand alone is not enough. He might be able to influence players directly around him , but not everyone. Lance is a leader of a group of players, blokes around him when he plays , i don't see him as a leader of a team/club. We need a core of leaders. Trading away both Lance/Fev and Stevens makes us more leadership lacking. Only one big name can go.. IMO....