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A reality check - How 'dispensable are we'?
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Author:  london blue [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  A reality check - How 'dispensable are we'?
I am not sure what posters mean when they suggest that the competition needs Carlton......lets not take anything for granted. I am sure we are only as important as we the supporters allow ourselves to be. Over time we become less and less important to the competition as it moves on.

Before drawing the same conclusion about the importance of our heritage to the AFL.......you would have to qualify measures like gate receipts over the last 5 years compared to previous 5, afl revenue comparisons, brand health indicator on the value of the game to australians.

I only suggest this on instinct, but i think the reality might be that the game is in a pretty healthy state as far as the AFL is concerned.

Naturally there are resonating concerns overs Carltons plight and the effect on the AFL. But lets face it - that pain was first felt 4-5 years ago. The AFL has evolved since then and is further evolving.

Ultimately clubs like Carltons become more and more dispensable over time.

Sadly we only have to refer to....dare i say it....Fitzroy......

"They were the power club of the competition in 1922 with seven flags – two more than Carlton and Collingwood (7 flags in 28 years....sounds familiar?).

Thereafter, though, success dried up. In 1936 the club won the wooden-spoon and it wasn’t until 1943 that they appeared in the finals once again. The claimed their eighth flag in 1944. But it was to be their last. And in the 52 years that followed they only played in the finals just nine times - 1947, 1952, 1958, 1960, 1979, 1981, 1983, 1984 and 1986"

Of course Fitzroy....or what it was has gone.....the game has moved on and you would argue that in the eyes of the AFL it is better than ever.

So all of you blues supporters, when you wear your heart on sleeve and suggest the AFL needs us......beware........beware....beware

They might need us now and for the next 5 minutes, 5 years or 50 years......BUT we have to take control again of our future, otherwise the agenda moves. With the capital reserves it currently sits, the AFL is looking forward and not behind at the past.

Beware....it hurts but shit, it is the true reality. :(

Nontheless, lets get on with it, make decisions and get back in control of the situation. Go Blues.
Author:  Dukes [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:31 am ]
Post subject: 
People forget we played finals in 2001. Fremantle are still to win ONE final for christ's sake.

We're down now ... but we'll be back!
Author:  BlueDW [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
I think that the AFL is very aware of our supporter base in terms of a lot of Itallians etc barrack for Carlton. With the very real threat of Soccer at the moment, if something happened to our club in terms of a merger or if we folded for arguments sake, the AFL faces the very real threat of many thousands of supporters being lost to the game forever, potentially as many as a couple of hundred thousand. The AFL is all about money these days, there is no way the AFL would take that chance, not because of the love they have for us, but because they fear being hit on the bottom line!!!
Author:  Synbad [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:32 am ]
Post subject: 
We wont be back as much if we dont make the hard calls!!!!
Author:  Synbad [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:35 am ]
Post subject: 
BlueDW wrote:
I think that the AFL is very aware of our supporter base in terms of a lot of Itallians etc barrack for Carlton. With the very real threat of Soccer at the moment, if something happened to our club in terms of a merger or if we folded for arguments sake, the AFL faces the very real threat of many thousands of supporters being lost to the game forever, potentially as many as a couple of hundred thousand. The AFL is all about money these days, there is no way the AFL would take that chance, not because of the love they have for us, but because they fear being hit on the bottom line!!!

More straw clutching....
The AFL will treat us like a Melbourne and a Bulldogs... (like a single mother) .. get minimum benefits just to stay alive.

Its up to us to be a power!!!.. theyre not going to prop us up for ourselves!!!.. they didnt do it for Collingwood why would they do it for us???

Are you guys flower crazy??????
Author:  molsey [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:39 am ]
Post subject: 
Even if you believe we are indispensable, the Board, fans, and players need to act as though we aren't. We can't rely on fairy tale endings - we've been down for 4 1/2 years now and a Great White Knight hasn't ridden in on his Great White Horse yet. That's long enough waiting for fairy tales.

We must behave as though the decisions we make now are the ones that will save the Club. If we get support from the AFL, so be it; if we get support from one of our benefactors, so be it, but we have to be preparing ourselves for the next phase.
Author:  london blue [ Thu May 25, 2006 10:43 am ]
Post subject: 
tough calls, tough calls needed

easy to say we played finals in 2001........Fitzroy said the same things many times.....in fact as late as 1987 after they played finals the year before......even 1994 when they sadly departed they could refer to the fact they had played finals in 1986!

Our finances and membership base need immeadiate attention.
Author:  bmaurizio [ Thu May 25, 2006 12:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
The AFL will assist CFC in every way possible and yes we are an essential and historically significant part of the it's history, no dispute.
The rescue package is political very sensitive, so will be managed tactfully.
It will take some time to asses the packages and maneuvering to handle parochial nonsense that goes on that s all.
We' ll be back stronger and better.
Ciao
:-D
Author:  BlueDW [ Thu May 25, 2006 1:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
Synbad wrote:
BlueDW wrote:
I think that the AFL is very aware of our supporter base in terms of a lot of Itallians etc barrack for Carlton. With the very real threat of Soccer at the moment, if something happened to our club in terms of a merger or if we folded for arguments sake, the AFL faces the very real threat of many thousands of supporters being lost to the game forever, potentially as many as a couple of hundred thousand. The AFL is all about money these days, there is no way the AFL would take that chance, not because of the love they have for us, but because they fear being hit on the bottom line!!!

More straw clutching....
The AFL will treat us like a Melbourne and a Bulldogs... (like a single mother) .. get minimum benefits just to stay alive.

Its up to us to be a power!!!.. theyre not going to prop us up for ourselves!!!.. they didnt do it for Collingwood why would they do it for us???

Are you guys flower crazy??????

I am agreeing with you goose, but there is no way they will let us merge or be relocated!!! The day the AFL does something that will hurt their bottom line is the day I become pope!!!
Author:  BlueDW [ Thu May 25, 2006 1:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
bmaurizio wrote:
The AFL will assist CFC in every way possible and yes we are an essential and historically significant part of the it's history, no dispute.
The rescue package is political very sensitive, so will be managed tactfully.
It will take some time to asses the packages and maneuvering to handle parochial nonsense that goes on that s all.
We' ll be back stronger and better.
Ciao
:-D

Correct, if it was as easy as giving us the money to clear our debt the AFL would do it, they would get those funds back ten fold. But in reality they have to consider the other 15 clubs, that is the only thing stopping them from throwing money at us!!!
Author:  london blue [ Thu May 25, 2006 3:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
BlueDW

what makes Carlton so important to the AFL?
Author:  magic [ Thu May 25, 2006 3:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Carlton is important to the competition, not only do we have the best rivalry with Collingwood and Essendon* we have a big supporter base and that means money for the AFL. Even though the last few years have been crap we still have managed to get membership and reasonable crowds but of course you have to expect a drop but when we improve so will the crowds.

A Collingwood supporter friend of mine said it would be a disaster if we were to fold because they will not only lose the best rivalry but won't be able to bag us if they win. If it were the other way around i would feel the same, i hate collingwood but i love it when we play and beat them and i would never want them to leave the comp.
Author:  Kaptain Kouta [ Thu May 25, 2006 3:52 pm ]
Post subject: 
molsey wrote:
Even if you believe we are indispensable, the Board, fans, and players need to act as though we aren't.


Summed it up beautifully, Molsey.

We may indeed be indispensible, but the more we act that way - which is a continuation of Big Jack's attitude, for mine - the more we allow ourselves to be fooled into thinking we're doing things right.
Author:  bmaurizio [ Thu May 25, 2006 3:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
The AFL would not allow any team to fold let alone CFC, the significance of a buoyant and prospering founding member should be clear to all.
As a proud and once arrogant club these are very difficult times for the CFC, but we will resolve all the problems with time.
Let's be patient and use the passion to support our great club the best we can.
Ciao
:-D
Author:  bondiblue [ Thu May 25, 2006 4:01 pm ]
Post subject: 
Everyone and anything is dispensable, excluding oxygen, clean water, clothing (in cold climate) and shelter, but as stated in another thread if the AFL merged, relocated or cut Carlton's umbilical cord (as guarantor with the NAB) there would be a cost.

I wont go through the costs to the AFL or to the game itself again if the unlikely were to happen, but I maintain that the costs far outweigh thw benefits in 2006, and I don't see the AFL doing it.

There is however a scenario that would minimise the cost to the AFL if it was to dispose of Carlton as we know it. If the supporter base and membership numbers continue to erode and the feral (uncouth, uncivilized, malicious) display from Carlton supporters continues, there is no way known that sponsors (let alone good players) would be attracted to Carlton, let alone the Carlton Brand, and the attendance numbers would not justify retaining the team in it's current form.

The signs of erosion are there. Supporters have been showing Richmondeesque qualities in the last couple of years, but especially this year. I wonder if those supporters understand why elite players we have targeted to recruit in the last few years have shown no desire to join our team, whereas in the past they would have jumped through hoops at the chance? Hall, Power, Kosi, Leppitch...no desire to entertain the thought.

IMO it's partly to do with the tarnished brand over the draft penalties (we can work through that though) but also to blame is the lack of heart from a fast becoming feral bunch of fairweathered supporters. Have a look at the disrespect shown to the best player we have recruited over the last decade in Stevens. Tagged, belted, gets up, belted, ganged up on, stays on the field all day, is a class above the next best midfielder in the team yet unappreciated and slandered by many supporters. They shouldn't be called supporters. Have a read of the thoughts towards Kouta, and I'm not talking about the ones who think its time to retire I'm talking about the slander. Classy bunch.

Before participating in one of the many Carlton supporter sites I considered everyone of the Carlton supporters as a brother in arms. However, since taking a daily interest in the thoughts of supporters this year, via these supporter sites, I have found many disenchanted supporters, who fail to have a positive impact on the club, and would consider all positive views as views through rose coloured glasses. The thought of brothers in arms...I couldn't be further from the truth.

IMO erosion of spirit and true support is our biggest enemy. Some of you supporters are doing a great job dragging this club down, and as you do, you make the AFL's job to dispose of us a much easier one by the day.

You're not going to bring me down Mr Cloudy Day.

Go Blues forever.
Author:  london blue [ Thu May 25, 2006 4:10 pm ]
Post subject: 
Don't get me wrong, i am a passionate supporter and believe in our heritage.

However, i refuse to dwell on our current equity, which still today has considerable value. Although based on membership and revenue does not make us so valuable to the AFL.

Culture and heritage is tenuous and we cannot rely on the fact that we are founding club....a club that has won more premierships than anyone else....maybe that still has life today.....

My point is that what is happening today has 'a heart beat'. The impact will take time to get over. The impact will require investment to re-build any effected equity. The impact of the last 5 years will take time to re-build a membership and sponsorship base that puts us in the top half of the competition.....not the bottom half.

Echo your thoughts back to the 1940's and those Fitzroy supporters who were very proud winners on 8 flags.....would they have sounded any different to us i.e we are not indispensable because collingwoood regards us as a tradtional rival?

I agree, we have to fight and fight hard.....but lets beware and not rely on what we have been or what we still think we are. If we do, then the real problems begin.

go blues forever
Author:  Synbad [ Thu May 25, 2006 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Oh bullshit!!!!

Richmonesque qualities ..????

Pigs ar$e!!!!!

Were the only thing the club has been working on...Weve been behind a basket case.

whats [REDACTED] up the club is the moronic view that because were Carlton we cant make hard choices.. and that because were Carlton we cant do this or that...

Some of us here.. go to training.. pre season games.. season games... know people around the club .. go to the VFL... and have a better understanding on where the club is at than people who hang around the Woolloomooloo pub...

I actually think anyone who says "Dont speak up!!" is a moron....!!!

In my honest opinion were setting ourselves up for something REALLY BAD Catastrophic in Biblical proportions if we continue as we have been.
something has to give
Author:  CK95 [ Thu May 25, 2006 4:17 pm ]
Post subject: 
Image
Author:  Elwood Blues1 [ Thu May 25, 2006 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
Synbad wrote:
BlueDW wrote:
I think that the AFL is very aware of our supporter base in terms of a lot of Itallians etc barrack for Carlton. With the very real threat of Soccer at the moment, if something happened to our club in terms of a merger or if we folded for arguments sake, the AFL faces the very real threat of many thousands of supporters being lost to the game forever, potentially as many as a couple of hundred thousand. The AFL is all about money these days, there is no way the AFL would take that chance, not because of the love they have for us, but because they fear being hit on the bottom line!!!

More straw clutching....
The AFL will treat us like a Melbourne and a Bulldogs... (like a single mother) .. get minimum benefits just to stay alive.

Its up to us to be a power!!!.. theyre not going to prop us up for ourselves!!!.. they didnt do it for Collingwood why would they do it for us???

Are you guys flower crazy??????



Agree..they have given us enough to keep breathing but not much else...
Its not a clan anymore its every club for themselves.....our past history means nothing...we have poor membership in reality now and our silvertail image has burnt us while the Essendons etc concentrated on the man in the street...its up to us to fix the problem as Synbad said not the AFL and if we dont they will fix it in their own way if it gets worse and we get desperate......its a bit like the old Roman days...some of us cant understand how the empire has crumbled and dont want to believe it....its serious and blind faith in the club and its history wont fix the problem...
Author:  london blue [ Thu May 25, 2006 4:18 pm ]
Post subject: 
'somethings gotta give' ....sounds like a good movie

tough decisions needed

positive supporters needed

unfortunatley all easier said than done

.,....it's a tough business and it's an emotional game
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