Anyone who doesn't want to tank and win four games or less is a fool. I find it hilarious that the same 'do gooder' people that didn't want to tank near the end of last year are now the ones raving about Murphy and Kennedy.

The return game against Essendon* this year should be the biggest tank in history, leave out Fevola, Whitnall, Stevens etc if necessary it will be impossible for the AFL to prove.

Speaking of those three, along with Waite, Carlton should grab their balls and trade them end of year, or at least two, we are losing by 10+ goals with them all playing as is now. This will ensure a less than four wins the following year as well and finally it will give us a quality group of youngsters coming through together, we don’t have that at present.

Not sure how we will get them but just as an example(may be spread over two drafts)

Fevola - 12,35
Whitnall - 25
Stevens - 20
Waite - 16

Would let us enter the 2006 draft with picks 1,12,17,25,32,35 which will give us six quality youngsters.

We then enter the 2007 draft with picks 1,2,16,18,20,34.

Anyone who thinks the current group of youngsters we have will be good enough to support Fevola, Whitnall and Stevens to win a premiership are kidding themselves.

It’s almost 5 years since Black Friday and the majority of you thought it would make the club stronger than ever before and it was perhaps the best thing for the club. Was it?

Do you want a team capable of winning a premiership or a team only possible of sneaking into the finals or if very lucky the top 4?

Do you want to be sitting here in 5 years time when these three have retired and be wishing we had of traded them?

Do you want to be sitting here in 5 years time saying how pointless it was finishing 6th to 12th in 2008,09,10?

The negative people among you will see this as a negative post, but it is in fact a positive post.

Carlton God
Futurist and Visionary

this is a shocking post have you no respect for the history of our club do you want us to lose by 150 points every week for the next 5 years and i dont care how many premierships we win for it nothing will erase the pain of watching that for years we'd probably lose 20k members and 50k suporters and we'd probly have to relocate or change name or something if thats what you want your kidding yourself and as for this silly idea being a 2 year plan it definitely wont be it will be at least 5 years and up to 8 or 9 years long

Why not trade Murphy, Walker & Simpson so we can be uncompetitive for 10 years and get heaps of great draft picks.

were you replying to me or to carlton god becasue thats not my philosophy

Hey CG, I hope you never get into a position of power at the club. Have to completely disagree with that post, and most I dare say would, unless of course you want to completely ruin the fabric of the club.

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17 4 10

good work barrass its thinking like that that has us in the position we are in now previously we had the opposite idea where we'd go for old and get rid of young and CG's idea is to keep all young and get rid of all over 24. i think at the moment we are on the right track as long as we keep shaping our list as we have been over the last couple of years

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This type of slight is alien in the more cultured part of the world - Walsh. Its up there with mad dogs, Englishmen and the midday sun!

CG has a valid point. His view point is of the minority but his thinking holds merit...

Although we are led to believe that Fevola, Whitnall etc have turned the corner, whether this true or not, one mustn't dismiss the notion that 'a leopard cannot change its spots'...

They may be doing all they can in trying to turn around the teams' fortunes, but is this enough??? And more importantly are they the characters which will help this club go forward...

The coach previous to Pagan was happy to see the back of Fevola. His thinking must not be forgotten. And I'm sure that he wasn't and perhaps still isn't the only person out there still holding this opinion...

Big decisions on star players being shipped to other clubs is not uncommon within the VFL/AFL. St Kilda...Barry Hall...It's just that it hasn't happened that much at Carlton..Looking at the soccer overseas, quality players are shipped from club to club regularly...

Those who are to achieve much must sacrifice much, and those who are to attain highly must sacrifice greatly...

Id definitely trade Lance for top 25 pick.
Id have a look at what Stevens will fetch.. but he will be captain next year.

And we should be looking at #1 and 2 next year..

BTW of course Denis has either moved along or has been moved along...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Well, this must be the New Testament, because Carlton God is much less "in your face" these days

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Love Cricket? Love me

Well we have had the flood and he has made a covenant to be nice in future - haven't you seen the rainbow.

Currently we are slaving away in the district of Goshen making mudbricks being chastised by whips, scorpions and 10 goal floggings.

Enter Moses - stage right.

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"Hence you will not say that Greeks fight like heroes but that heroes fight like Greeks"?

Winston Churchill

FFS take a breath when you're speaking, True_Blue. I dig your sentiments but MAN I turn blue in the face reading sentences like that!

As for trading the big boys: I just can't do it. Heart over head, I'm afraid. @#$%&! all the "Will he be in our next premiership team?" bullshit (yes I know that hasn't been alluded to in this thread) - I personally love supporting Lance & Brendan etc.

I dunno - I know CG and Synbad et al make sense re playing the system but I'm afraid I support the players AND the team. I starting watching footy because of individual players - not individual teams. I chose Carlton, not just because my then gf's dad played for CFC, but because of the likes of Ratten & Kouta & Camporeale & Hickmott (sp?). That's how it was and that's how it is.

I'm just not that interested in winning a premiership with 42 top ten picks. I want a premiership with men who I support becasue they're trying like @#$%&! to win. Yes, I'm committed to Carlton now and that means I support each and every player, but I haven't forgotten that it was the individuals that attracted me to the team: Murphy lifting the ball high at the end of the 99 prelim, a rove by Kouta in 2000 when he dodged and weaved and slotted a goal.

End rant and return to celebrating establishment of new business (via copious amounts of piss)

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

do u guys really think that these suggestions are going to have an impact in 2 years? i cant see us winning a game for the next 3 years if we dont have fevola whitnall and stevens these guys are all under 26 and every club needs its leaders or theres no one for the young blokes to model themselves on

Hey Nostradamis....what the hell are you talking about? Do you even know?

You just have to close your eyes for the next 2 years with Lance etc or wqithout Lance.. and you have to think 4 years from now.
HTP the problem with what youre saying is you might never see a premiership again.. unless the game gets played.

You see.. the AFL want each team to have a chance of winning a premiership eaach 16 years,

The days of the Dynasties are over... now you get clubs with a small window of opportunity to win in maybe 3 or 4 years ???

And thats if they do EVERYTHING right....!!!


The game has been screwed and you play it to the AFLs terms... so according to their terms.. you find their weak spot and you tinker it to your own advantage...and you use their very own equalitarian system to @#$%&! them up the arse and really stick it to them!!!

We fought the system too long where did that get us??... heres a chance of using it against them!!!

Are you serious????

If we win 2 premierships in 2009 and 2011 youre really going to say.. i want no part in the celebrations??

Cos thats the only way youre going to give yourself any chance of winning anything in the next 20 years from where were at today!!!!...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Nah @#$%&! it - i can't let this go. I raise my hand thusly to say that I do not want to be a supporter of Carlton if all we're going to do is buy, sell and exchange to win a premiership.

How long ago was it that we were all deriding St Kilda about their (supposed) high number of top ten draft picks? I note that that line of humour has died lately: perhaps because we CFC supporters are wishing our hardest to set an all-time record of sub top ten picks for our next premiership team?

I KNOW IT'S THE SYSTEM ... I KNOW! @#$%&! this is frustrating. I KNOW I'm being romantic - wanting a team that's built without concessions.

AAAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHH - I can't win this! Synbad's going to bust my chops with a clearly thought out (although poorly executed) point that's going to make my airy fairy ramblings reduntant.

Pant pant pant - I'm through - I'm done. I'm going back to posting drug references in Talking Stuff to titillate the ladies

@#$%&! I need a line

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

Ill just explain something to you...

We always paid to win a premiership.. usually money.. we gave more than everybody else.. because we were the best at whatever it took to win a premiership!!!...

We used the capitalist system when it was to our advantage.. and thats what a smart club should have done.
now that the AFL have turned all communist.. you need to have a brand new ideology... and use that system to your advantage.


Premierships are what makes you great or shit....


And development is crucial.......

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

Synbad, I KNOW!!!

I'm just frustrated.

Of course I'm not suggesting I won't support the team - it's the system - it's just sad that this system allows opposition supporters to say "Oh, ok, so you won the premiership - but you wouldn't have if you didn't get those early draft picks, you know!". It would be nice if we could win on our own terms - not the AFL's (which should be a facilitator - not a @#$%&! plastic mapped out destiny maker ... type ... thing)

OK - four years of frustration have been mildly vented - I'm going back in my box now

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"In better news for Blues fans, Jarrad Waite was not named on the club's injury list."

You know something?

when we were rich and at our peak .. nobody asked Sth Melbourne .. Footscray or Fitzroy if the system was fair..

Things change... you have to be in a position to take advantage ..

We should be in that position right now... and taking full toll.

Like a batsman dispatching loose deliveries to the boundary...

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Due to recent budget cuts and the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil....... the Light at the End of the Tunnel has been turned off. We apologize for the inconvenience.

i dont know how trading off whitnall stevens and fevola is going to make us not finish on the bottom of the ladder even if we have them we'll still finish last but if we trade them then i just think our young guys wont develop too well so i say we should just keep them and just make sure we dont cop 100 point hidings any more just be competitive and we'll still finish last we cant stop that and in 3 or 4 years e can trade them off to a team desperately trying to top up for a premiership in exchange for high draft picks