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| Time for overhaul at Carlton http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10811 |
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| Author: | Effes [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Time for overhaul at Carlton |
Time for overhaul at Carlton Quote: Pagan, after 10 years coaching the Kangaroos for nine finals appearances, left the Roos with a 62 per cent success rate. After three-and-a-half seasons at Carlton, his success rate with the Blues is 26 per cent.
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| Author: | Kouta [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 12:48 am ] |
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Quote: In 2004, Carlton's first two picks were Jordan Russell at nine and Adam Hartlett at 25. Russell has played just three games; Hartlett, who has been injured, has not been seen at all. These are not good signs.
It's their second year in the AFL FFS! He needs to go stop talking about the size of player's muscles and go and visit Rex's non-girlfriend. 
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| Author: | Ponkstar [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:06 am ] |
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Most of what he says is spot on IMO. About time someone in the media called it from a specific standpoint. Too many so-called media experts don't even know our list past the starting 21. Bloody hell - I'd love to have Wallsy at Carlton again. |
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| Author: | london blue [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:59 am ] |
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great comments from wallsy - spot on in every way his point on russell and hartlett appropriate - regardless of reasons they have netted 3 games. his article of a couple of weeks ago which seemed to be holding back on his deepest thoughts must have been his 'foreplay' before this article and the discussing real thing. |
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| Author: | RoK [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 2:20 am ] |
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He is spot on,we need freash new blood at the club.from top to bottom. New ideas and take some risks on late draft picks. |
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| Author: | Rhys26 [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:54 am ] |
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london blue wrote: great comments from wallsy - spot on in every way
his point on russell and hartlett appropriate - regardless of reasons they have netted 3 games. Walls views are pretty much spot on. I think he is a bit tough on Russell - I reckon he has been nursed well by the club. On the other hand Hartlett looks like another Livingston - his performances in the wizard cup and reserves games last year show that he hasn't got many tricks. Recruiters may have got that one wrong!! No surprises there given our great recruiting history |
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| Author: | CarltonClem [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:08 am ] |
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Every club has mistakes in the recruiting lottery. However, we've had more than most. Elwood for one is particularly critical on Shane O'Sullivan and for good reason judging by what's been through Carlton in the early Noughties. Most of what he says is spot on, particularly about the coaches and the selling of the club's message to the faithful. |
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| Author: | Deano Supremo [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:16 am ] |
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Put up or shut up Wallsy. If you have the answers, then do something about it. |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:17 am ] |
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Without taking the details as gospel.. we we know journos are pretty shithouse with details.. the essence of what he says is true. |
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| Author: | uncle john [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:22 am ] |
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Rhys26 wrote: On the other hand Hartlett looks like another Livingston - his performances in the wizard cup and reserves games last year show that he hasn't got many tricks. Recruiters may have got that one wrong!! No surprises there given our great recruiting history
Seems a bit harsh!! I would have thought that Hartlett was a walk up start with the form he showed pre-season. The worry is his injuries ..... On the Walls article........ Caught a bit of Buckley & Hamil on Fox footy last night. Neither seemed convinced that it was a good idea to stack a side with kids purely for the sake of them gaining match time. Gerard Healy is another one that thinks that way. Everyone has their own thoughts, Wallsy is just airing his. I'm not convinced that JR has the body size to cope just yet. He got knocked off the ball pretty easily on a few occasions when he did manage to get a run. I've got no doubt he'll get there, we all just need to show a little patience. |
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| Author: | Cazzesman [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:42 am ] |
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Rhys26 wrote: london blue wrote: great comments from wallsy - spot on in every way his point on russell and hartlett appropriate - regardless of reasons they have netted 3 games. On the other hand Hartlett looks like another Livingston - his performances in the wizard cup and reserves games last year show that he hasn't got many tricks. Recruiters may have got that one wrong!! No surprises there given our great recruiting history So the fact that since his arrival to CFC he has had a couple of knee injuries keeping him out for lengthy periods and a few hammies along the way thereby restricting his fitness, suggests the recruiters got that one wrong. 
You obviously missed the demolition job Harts did in a VFL game down at Geelong playing on Nathan Ablett toward the end of 2005. Kept Ablett almost kickless playing at CHF. Actually after this years Wizzard cup he was in line for a Senior game early in the year but alas injury struck again. You say he has few tricks. The fact that he can take a pack mark and kick 60 metres might just find him a spot in the 1st 22 once he can get fit and stay fit. I could understand if you said you were more concerned about him being prone to injury, which is true, rather than his football ability. He is 196cm and 95kg KPP. He was drafted at pick 25 in 2004. The club needed a player of his size on the list. Go back through the 2004 draft and point out any other 18yr old KPP picked after 25 who has set the world on fire or has shown much more than Hartlett has 18 months later. Lastly your remark about CFC's current and past recruiting history just doesn't stack up. The pre/post 2004 recruiting teams are entirely different groups of people in every State. Regards Cazzesman |
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| Author: | Humpers [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 9:42 am ] |
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I think Wallsy is a little misguided about his comments on both Russell and Hartlett. Also, statistics show that only a small percentage of players which are late draft picks "make the grade". Hence it is a inappropriate to criticise the selections of DeLuca, Bannister, Bryan etc. |
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| Author: | Speakers [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:03 am ] |
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Failed to mention the fact we traded away early picks for O'Rielly and McGuane and Mansfield etc, a pretty poor oversight given what the article was largely about. |
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| Author: | JackWorrall [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:05 am ] |
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Lies, damned lies... This article is very selective. No mention of the success stories such as Walker, Simpson, Fisher etc. It doesn't mention how other young players have been developed and a highest place finish of eighth when coaching the Brisbane Bears does not endorse his theory of playing kids all the time. Whilst I agree that there are many things wrong down at MC Labour Park, shallow articles such as this contribute little, if anything, to the debate. |
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| Author: | Ads [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:10 am ] |
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Walllsy is 100% with everything he wrote there, i couldnt agree more if i tried. His comments about Russel & Hartlett are accurate too, its not hard to see they are duds and anybody who thinks otherwise are either niave, or just plain dumb. If they were any good they wouldb e in the team, but they struggle to perform at VFL level |
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| Author: | Synbad [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:16 am ] |
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Seagull wrote: Walllsy is 100% with everything he wrote there, i couldnt agree more if i tried.
His comments about Russel & Hartlett are accurate too, its not hard to see they are duds and anybody who thinks otherwise are either niave, or just plain dumb. If they were any good they wouldb e in the team, but they struggle to perform at VFL level But thats not true. Number 1 as pointed out Hartlett has been injured alot. Number 2 Russell in my opinion isnt played to his strengths. Bit rich to call players duds this early... |
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| Author: | bluehammer [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:22 am ] |
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If the two lines on Russell and Hartlett are scrapped, it's spot on. |
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| Author: | uncle john [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 10:28 am ] |
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Seagull wrote: Walllsy is 100% with everything he wrote there, i couldnt agree more if i tried.
His comments about Russel & Hartlett are accurate too, its not hard to see they are duds and anybody who thinks otherwise are either niave, or just plain dumb. If they were any good they wouldb e in the team, but they struggle to perform at VFL level I might be Naive .... maybe even dumb ...... but .... my dear little seagull .... you are being just a irrational !!!!! Even the "struggle to perform at VFL level" statement ..... What's that all about!!! JR had 35 touches a couple of weeks ago !!!!! 
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| Author: | bondiblue [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:15 am ] |
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The way I read it was that the signs aren't good when referring to Harts and Russell, and not that they are no good. That's OK, imo he's only basing this possibility of failure on the record our recruiters have with high picks in recent years and the seemingly low output from them, and of course eventual failure. Given that there has been a low output from Hartlett and Russell, then based on the recent success trend with recruiting high picks, and the fact it's the same recruiter who has failed in the past that selected these guys, there may be something in that. That's all. He does not account for injury or whatever, just the number of games. Not necassarily accurate or true but definetely follows the lines of logic. What it highlights to me is that this club better do better than it has in the past with the development of Harts and Russell. I think they can offer heaps for this club. Harts at 196 wont get smaller, and he is a big kick, and quite athletic too (ala Southby). I agree with his general summation, and it's really nothing new, although I too would have liked to read some refernce to Waite, Fisher, Simmo, Walker, and even Murphy. But I think his main points are not Harts and Russell, but the list of players that need to be delisted, need for a new recruiting officer and new young coaches with a fresh approach. It may just be that the selections were right and the development coaching weak. Whatever the case, Wallsy has put the torch on Carlton, and the issues he raises need to be thrashed out before the end of he year. |
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| Author: | Lace Out [ Sat Jun 10, 2006 11:18 am ] |
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Quote: Seagull wrote:
Walllsy is 100% with everything he wrote there, i couldnt agree more if i tried. His comments about Russel & Hartlett are accurate too, its not hard to see they are duds and anybody who thinks otherwise are either niave, or just plain dumb. If they were any good they wouldb e in the team, but they struggle to perform at VFL level Are you aware how much gametime some legends of our club played in the reserves??? Walls is pretty spot on with his article, however he is too quick to judge with Russell and Hartlett...(Even though they both seem soft) |
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