TalkingCarlton :: View topic - Inability to resist the surge

It's definitely a mental thing that's for sure.

It"s called not having enough want, committment or focus

No what it is, is turning the F*#@! ball over time after time entering the forwardline and getting flogged on the way back when everyone is out of position. It happened so often I was a shattered shell of a supporter.

Game plans count for nothing if you keep handing the ball to the opposition on a silver platter.

Regards Cazzesman

We dont have a gameplan... there is little structure in how we go about moving the ball.
That leads to little confidence in posession of the ball and that leads to turnovers.. which means we get smashed.

Simple really.

Cazzesman wrote:

Game plans count for nothing if you keep handing the ball to the opposition on a silver platter.

Regards Cazzesman

I vote Cazzesman's comment as the most succinct summary of our current predicament I have ever read.

Even when we got it to forward 50 we kicked it (badly) to Fev in a three on one.

Synbad wrote:

Badman if you can't hit a target 30 metres away then a having any game plan is worth Sweet FA. If you kick to Fev each and every time in a 3 on 1 and don't drop your eyes to see someone alone abit shorter then a game plan is worth Sweet FA.

I know Pagan likes them to kick long, and so do I, but players have to have some semblance of footy smarts and show some initiative. Many of our players have none and just bomb away. Then the rebound happens.

Regards Cazzesman

If you dont look at the game as a game for a quarter and you just concentrate on our structure... and what were attempting to do.. i defy anyone to make a call on how were attempoting to move the ball from defence to the scoring opportunity.

Its just play football... if you break it down there are no set plays from kick out going forward .. or from ruck to smaller player.. or linking or anything...

what that does is it breaks down our game for the opposition.. and were only as strong as our weakest links.
They sit off us wait for the mistake and pounce.

Now why do we continue to make the same mistakes in ball movement week in week out???...

Its because the mini plays dont exist... the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing ahnd THAT leads to a downward spiral...in every aspect of the team.

Other teams have just as many first and second year players as us.. and they seem to know what theyre doing out there.....

The players are drafted from the same pool of players as we draft ours from.... but they play different.

Now read the Adelaide article about the Crows and Craig once again and youll see whats wrong...

PS how many changes did we make from the bench today????

so why should we have been three goals up at quater time?

Why did geelong score 7 goals in time on to our zilch in the first half?

How does a gameplan assist in not missing from 20 meteres out?

This game (like all sporting contests) relies on pressure. the application and absorbtion of pressure.

We cannot apply it most weeks (miss our moments when things run our way) and cannot absorb it (when things run their way).

That game was lost in the first 15 minutes we threw the kitchen sink at them but we threw it north and they were south! After they stopped laughing, they destroyed us.

Author:	london blue [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Inability to resist the surge
14 of the cats goals were kicked in 4 separate bursts. Notwithstanding they also kicked 9 others to our 11 in total (to highlight they butchered us) - it was the ability to blitz us in bursts that drove a nail into the heart: Q1 - kicked 5 goals: 4 were in 6.5 minutes Q2 - kicked 6 goals: 4 were in 7.5 minutes Q3 - kicked 6 goals: 3 were in 8 minutes in fact the 4 in Q2 were kicked at the close of the Qtr and the 3 in Q3 were kicked at the opening...made it a combined burst (or perhaps complete BLITZ) of 7 goals in 15.5 minutes Q4 - kicked 6 goals: 3 were in 5 minutes wasn't at the game, so cannot comment on cause, but the statistics are telling us something

Author:	jack_4 [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:
It's definitely a mental thing that's for sure.

Author:	jim [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:
jack_4 wrote: It's definitely a mental thing that's for sure. It"s called not having enough want, committment or focus

Author:	coffee man [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:
Quote: It"s called not having enough want, committment or focus CONFIDENCE

Author:	Sydney Blue [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:
Its the lack of reaction to counter it coming from the coaches box. He is renouned for it

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Inability to resist the surge http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11292	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Cazzesman [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:
No what it is, is turning the F*#@! ball over time after time entering the forwardline and getting flogged on the way back when everyone is out of position. It happened so often I was a shattered shell of a supporter. Game plans count for nothing if you keep handing the ball to the opposition on a silver platter. Regards Cazzesman

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:
We dont have a gameplan... there is little structure in how we go about moving the ball. That leads to little confidence in posession of the ball and that leads to turnovers.. which means we get smashed. Simple really.

Author:	Ponkstar [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:47 pm ]
Post subject:
Cazzesman wrote: No what it is, is turning the F*#@! ball over time after time entering the forwardline and getting flogged on the way back when everyone is out of position. It happened so often I was a shattered shell of a supporter. Game plans count for nothing if you keep handing the ball to the opposition on a silver platter. Regards Cazzesman I vote Cazzesman's comment as the most succinct summary of our current predicament I have ever read. Even when we got it to forward 50 we kicked it (badly) to Fev in a three on one.

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:50 pm ]
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Could it be because Denis pre empted what were going to do when he said... "If Fev plays well we will win.. bloah blah.." Look Denis is no brainy coach... he has very few fall backs if the main plan isnt working..... Its Fev or bust at Carlton.. like Carey or bust at North. Just the game has become abit more intricate.... Ball movement and set plays are vital to moving the ball from point a to point b.... were learning but were MILES behind other clubs.

Author:	Mrs Caz [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Synbad wrote: We dont have a gameplan... there is little structure in how we go about moving the ball. That leads to little confidence in posession of the ball and that leads to turnovers.. which means we get smashed. Simple really. Badman if you can't hit a target 30 metres away then a having any game plan is worth Sweet FA. If you kick to Fev each and every time in a 3 on 1 and don't drop your eyes to see someone alone abit shorter then a game plan is worth Sweet FA. I know Pagan likes them to kick long, and so do I, but players have to have some semblance of footy smarts and show some initiative. Many of our players have none and just bomb away. Then the rebound happens. Regards Cazzesman

Author:	Rhys26 [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:
Ponkstar wrote: Cazzesman wrote: No what it is, is turning the F*#@! ball over time after time entering the forwardline and getting flogged on the way back when everyone is out of position. It happened so often I was a shattered shell of a supporter. Game plans count for nothing if you keep handing the ball to the opposition on a silver platter. Regards Cazzesman I vote Cazzesman's comment as the most succinct summary of our current predicament I have ever read. Even when we got it to forward 50 we kicked it (badly) to Fev in a three on one. Would help if we could find another avenue to goal. Instead we go the same predicatble way to Fev all the time. Coaching against Pagan is an easy gig

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:00 pm ]
Post subject:
Mrs Caz wrote: Synbad wrote: We dont have a gameplan... there is little structure in how we go about moving the ball. That leads to little confidence in posession of the ball and that leads to turnovers.. which means we get smashed. Simple really. Badman if you can't hit a target 30 metres away then a having any game plan is worth Sweet FA. If you kick to Fev each and every time in a 3 on 1 and don't drop your eyes to see someone alone abit shorter then a game plan is worth Sweet FA. I know Pagan likes them to kick long, and so do I, but players have to have some semblance of footy smarts and show some initiative. Many of our players have none and just bomb away. Then the rebound happens. Regards Cazzesman Its got nothing to do with hitting targets from 30 meters Mrs Cazz.. thats just the end result.... We just dont look like we know what were doing out there.... If you dont look at the game as a game for a quarter and you just concentrate on our structure... and what were attempting to do.. i defy anyone to make a call on how were attempoting to move the ball from defence to the scoring opportunity. Its just play football... if you break it down there are no set plays from kick out going forward .. or from ruck to smaller player.. or linking or anything... what that does is it breaks down our game for the opposition.. and were only as strong as our weakest links. They sit off us wait for the mistake and pounce. Now why do we continue to make the same mistakes in ball movement week in week out???... Its because the mini plays dont exist... the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing ahnd THAT leads to a downward spiral...in every aspect of the team. Other teams have just as many first and second year players as us.. and they seem to know what theyre doing out there..... The players are drafted from the same pool of players as we draft ours from.... but they play different. Now read the Adelaide article about the Crows and Craig once again and youll see whats wrong... PS how many changes did we make from the bench today???? Its laughable... I dont even know why we name 22 each week.. why not play with EIGHTEEN???? The guy is a joke!!!

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:
Pagan blaming his players skill is a bad workman blaming his tools. its just a cop out .. because its the sdame week in week out... But thats the obvious.. now tell me why our skills are shot and our decision making is terrible???? i want to get to the crux of it... not the obvious!!!

Author:	4thchicken [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:
Didnt follow the game today so curious of the following 1. how much game time did our younger players get? Was surprised to see that blackwell only got 7 touches 2. Did we go away from the game plan/style of previous weeks? ie 1 player = 1 oppononent and stick with them at all costs, constant bench rotations etc

Author:	Goltzenberg [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:59 pm ]
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The gameplan is this 1) play defensive 2) Kick along the boundarie line so if they cant mark it goes out of bounds hopefully 3) Play players out of position 4) Dont kick do a handball to a player 1mtr away 5) Try to get in Fev's leading space to draw your opponent on to him 6) Tire players out by not using the interchange 7) Pagan talks on the phone constantly but no interchanges get done, funny that. Continue loosing the same way each week without changing. 9) instead of kicking a low straight kick for a chestmark, give it some arc so the opponent has time to spoil. 10) kick to the opposition just a few things i noticed the last 10 games

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Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:20 pm ]
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in order for us to make an impression on the scoreboard we have to hope that... a) Fev beats three opponents. b) someone does something freaky like Carazzo c) Betts tackles someone in our forward line.... d) some other unstructured way to score.... What i want to see is where is the structure????? Seriously... i cant believe that after FOUR years we have nothing to show for it in terms of a style on the field.... The players who will fail ... the targets we miss are a consequence of all this.... Redhead matches.....

Author:	bondiblue [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:54 pm ]
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London Blue, you missed a really good effort in the first quarter. apart from the 3 min burst. Again, the second was also really competitive, except for about 5 mins. I thought Geelong were a bit tinny. Setanta looked like a footballer and moved really well, DeLuca was holding onto them and doing a lot of running, Simpson killing it, Fev was in unbeatable form...there were good signs...albeit wastful disosal to man and goal. Then something happened. They got too far out in front. The intensity dropped off. Why? How? Then it was on, then it was off....typical kids I thought. What's the reason? I thought it must be confidence and definetely injuries to Waite and Fisher in the forwardline and Murphy to break the lines with great disposal. Then I thought Tanking! What I found most frustrating on the field, was Disposal skills poor when attacking (Simpson and Houlihan the exceptions), Confidence, and Intensity. The point to wonder is why are we Fev centric and have no options in the corridor? Why do we go sideways so often and get lost and kick and hope? But the best summation for me is Synbad's. In defense of Pagan, Tanking is the only excuse for it. Synbad wrote Quote: If you dont look at the game as a game for a quarter and you just concentrate on our structure... and what were attempting to do.. i defy anyone to make a call on how were attempoting to move the ball from defence to the scoring opportunity. Its just play football... if you break it down there are no set plays from kick out going forward .. or from ruck to smaller player.. or linking or anything... what that does is it breaks down our game for the opposition.. and were only as strong as our weakest links. They sit off us wait for the mistake and pounce. Now why do we continue to make the same mistakes in ball movement week in week out???... Its because the mini plays dont exist... the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing ahnd THAT leads to a downward spiral...in every aspect of the team. Other teams have just as many first and second year players as us.. and they seem to know what theyre doing out there..... The players are drafted from the same pool of players as we draft ours from.... but they play different. Now read the Adelaide article about the Crows and Craig once again and youll see whats wrong... PS how many changes did we make from the bench today????

Author:	Synbad [ Sat Jul 08, 2006 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:
I dont think were tanking... i genuinely believe we dont know what were doing. I dont think youd win alot of games with Setanta/Blackwell/Russell itypes n the side... because theyre very raw... But you need to be establishing an 'ethos' on how you want them to play. We have no idea what were doing... its like gettuing your mates together at a park .. having a barbie and then having a game... youre all out there playing footy but there is no system. I truly believe its an indictment on the MC that after 4 years the players have no thumbprint on a system that theyre meant to be playing... winning or losing is irrelevant.... whats important is were not burning the ability of the kids .. and were not burning footballers. If you have a game plan... and you have commitment and belief in that gameplan.. and the players commit to doing all the little things theyre drilled to do at training.. where to run...who the ball carriers are.. who the enginbe room players are.. who the decoys are.. who blocks and shepherds and when... where to run in different situations.... sooner or later it will start clicking into place. Right now .. there is nothing.. ZILCH... NUDDA.... None is running into space .. the ball is incoherent from kick outs.. the inside 50s are terrible... no blocking for the ball carriers... no st plays from ruckmen linking up with midfielders... The defence has no clue....players chopped and changed back there at a drop of a hat so theyre all confused. Kids like Russell have no clue what their role is. Betts isnt a crumber.. he is a one man tackling machine in our forward line.... obviously told to forget about crumbing but just look for arms to snavel... Carazzo is our CHF... wile Kennedy can perve at proceedings from the bench...Blackwell can keep him company.... McLaren is our CHB even though really he is at the club to back up Frenchy... what the @#$%&! is going on??????????????????????????? Whats the plan?????????

Author:	dannyboy [ Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:18 am ]
Post subject:
so why should we have been three goals up at quater time? Why did geelong score 7 goals in time on to our zilch in the first half? How does a gameplan assist in not missing from 20 meteres out? This game (like all sporting contests) relies on pressure. the application and absorbtion of pressure. We cannot apply it most weeks (miss our moments when things run our way) and cannot absorb it (when things run their way). That game was lost in the first 15 minutes we threw the kitchen sink at them but we threw it north and they were south! After they stopped laughing, they destroyed us.

Author:	Synbad [ Sun Jul 09, 2006 12:22 am ]
Post subject:
dannyboy wrote: so why should we have been three goals up at quater time? Why did geelong score 7 goals in time on to our zilch in the first half? How does a gameplan assist in not missing from 20 meteres out? This game (like all sporting contests) relies on pressure. the application and absorbtion of pressure. We cannot apply it most weeks (miss our moments when things run our way) and cannot absorb it (when things run their way). That game was lost in the first 15 minutes we threw the kitchen sink at them but we threw it north and they were south! After they stopped laughing, they destroyed us. dannyboy.. regardless of why and how there is no system .... And when there is no system you have perpetual losers....