``Before you start with your questions, you have to be aware that I don't want any questions in terms of noble efforts or anything like that because the effort we displayed today was the effort we expect every week,'' he said.

``Unfortunately for the bulk of the last six weeks, our effort in that regard has been nothing short of sub-standard.

``We don't have 10-goal losses like we have had consistently over the last six weeks unless the effort has been very, very poor.

``We are not interested in noble performance, we are interested in winning games of footy we are capable of and making sure the effort from week to week is consistent.'

Perhaps Pagan's biggest flaw is that he tries to win.

Jim you have an opinion and others have different opinions.

But in the presser he said a similar thing? Where's there's effort he is more than happy to say it... where there isn't like the second half, he admonishes them (and gets in trouble from some posters for being negative).

You cant win when you lose, its as simple as that.

We gave up the ghost after a promising start. Poor leadership and OK coaching by Thompson, we are, after all, a 1 trick pony at the moment and our pony cant beat 2 each time now can he? The last half was poor and he said so.

What many posters forget is Pagan is having to rebuild an entire team. Most rebuilding comes from having a rebuild a half a team, around some core leaders - look at WCE a few years ago. Look at Adelaide now. We've got nothing. Those good players that we had in 2001 or 2002 are now at the end and can not offer anything more.

Yep, we have Lance. Fevola (under development at the time). houlihan, wiggins.

Most Clubs rebuilding at least have a core to work with. That's all we had. The task was monumental.

What are you saying? the others you list have come in recently.

I'm saying that from we've had to rebuild completely. Richmond is still rebuilding and are a few years ahead of us, mainly because of the 2004 draft. We basically started from scratch. Given that, I dont understand why people advocate only 5-7 changes to the list this there.