SurreyBlue wrote:
Unfortunately Pagan has run his race at CFC.
Unfortunatley he hasn't Surrey........................he's still got 2 years left on that race!
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| Barry Mitchell = Neil Craig? http://talkingcarlton.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11743 |
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| Author: | phoenix johnson [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Barry Mitchell = Neil Craig? |
First of all, let me make it clear that if Pagan were to resign to today, I'd prefer a non Carlton person to take over as coach. However... If Barry Mitchell was appointed coach, could he have the same affect on the playing group that Neil Craig had on Adelaide when Ayres was sacked? If I remember correctly, the players felt more comfortable around Craig and were willing to play for him as opposed to Ayres. I get the feeling that a lot of the players, particularly the players who spend a large amount of time in the VFL, respect Mitch and actually want to play for him, whereas some of them may have had enough of Pagan and his 'old school' philosophys. Adelaide have done much better since Craig took over and are on the verge of winning the flag, could Barry Mitchell do the same for us? |
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| Author: | camel [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:34 am ] |
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It's an interesting theory pj. Not sure if Mitchell would have as much depth of character, if you will, in comparison to Craig and his strong fitness/sports science background. But in terms of player development and so on Mitchell may well be on a par. Although, isn't he as much an old skool firebrand as Pagan anyway? |
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| Author: | phoenix johnson [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:36 am ] |
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It's a possibility, Liam. But you would think if the players appear to want to play for Mitch, then he must be doing something that Pagan isn't. |
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| Author: | SurreyBlue [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:39 am ] |
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We lack unity. For the good of the club, a change should have been made last year. At this point in time fresh ideas is exactly what is needed. I want a young group of Ratten, SOS and Dean. Doesn't matter if they make mistakes, they will grow and learn with our youngsters and put the "love" of the jumper back into the players. Unfortunately Pagan has run his race at CFC. |
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| Author: | camel [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:42 am ] |
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The "wanting to play for the coach" is the intersting point I reckon. How long does that phenomenon last? Is it just one week, two weeks, a year maybe? I think you might be on to something, but whoever coaches us needs to have a lot more depth to them than the novelty factor of playing for a new coach. In hindsight, and with the grass always being greener on the other side, perhaps we should have chased Rocket Eade. I haven't completely lost faith in Pagan just yet, but it is diminishing. At the very least I'll be disappointed if we don't have a fresh injection of talent in our support coaches over the off-season. Along with the removal of one or two of our current coaching roster. |
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| Author: | Elwood Blues1 [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 9:47 am ] |
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A reasonable assumption that Mitchell would get better results.....young players seem to respect and warm to him ...probably needs to win the VFL with the Bullants though to secure his position as front runner. David Rhys Jones was in the frame for a coaching job at the Blues but couldnt get Frankston over the line in the VFL and I think that affected his chances.... If Ken Sheldon were to get Libba's job that might make it more interesting....Mitchell and Sheldon would both have Denis looking over his shoulder..Like PJ i'm not so keen on inbreds and wouldnt mind some outsiders in the mix just to give us some balance.... a person like Don Pyke could make some unbiased decisons and be more candid rather than having any loyalty's etc to worry about and I think we need some fresh ideas....not saying I wouldnt be unhappy to see Mitchell have a shot just think we should consider everyone available....just hope its sooner than later... re: Ratten and SOS...not at this stage... |
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| Author: | ryan2000 [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:16 am ] |
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SurreyBlue wrote: Unfortunately Pagan has run his race at CFC.
Unfortunatley he hasn't Surrey........................he's still got 2 years left on that race!
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| Author: | azzablue [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:41 am ] |
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NO micthell would not be a craig...he has been at carlton too long in the bad years...we need a fresh start...new people bring new energy...unfortunatley for mitchell its the story of his carlton life...he came to us a player one year too late via collingwood and now as our coach during our bleak years.... TIME TO MOVE FORWARD |
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| Author: | verbs [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:49 am ] |
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I get to thinking, imagine if a broom was swept through everything, and a whole new Carlton face was to lift us up into a new era. Powerful, respected, unified identities. Silvagni, Dean, Ratten, Bradley, Williams, McKay et al setting a new agenda with fresh ideas and creating an envied environment, with players wanting to play for Carlton, wanting to associate themselves with a true Carlton spirit, and the heart and soul of the Club returning from wherever it's gone. A revolution lead by those whose feats of greatness have been betrayed by the past five years. |
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| Author: | kaxsta [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barry Mitchell = Neil Craig? |
Alternative equation: Mitchell = Pagan (1993)? If you look at the history Pagan replaced Wayne Schimmelbusch in similar circumstances to Neil Craig with Pagan having multiple successes at under 19 and reserves level and eventually took the roos to 2 premierships. |
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| Author: | woof [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Barry Mitchell = Neil Craig? |
phoenix johnson wrote: Adelaide have done much better since Craig took over and are on the verge of winning the flag, could Barry Mitchell do the same for us?
Craig has improved the Crows during home and away football. The jury is still out as far as finals football is concerned. His current record in finals is 2 losses and 1 win. Adelaide need to make the Grand Final this year and win a Grand Final in the next two years for his methods to be proven. |
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| Author: | malbi [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:48 am ] |
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I think that one of the keys is respect. Pagan doesn't appear to have the respect of the players, whereas I think that Mitch does. When you gain the respect of the players you can get them to do some great things. |
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| Author: | woof [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:52 am ] |
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malleefowl wrote: I think that one of the keys is respect. Pagan doesn't appear to have the respect of the players, whereas I think that Mitch does. When you gain the respect of the players you can get them to do some great things.
So which players do not respect Pagan that are capable of doing great things? |
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| Author: | kingkerna [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:55 am ] |
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I would love a Ratten/Sheldon combo - I don't subscribe to the theory of not using Carlton people. Why should they not be considered because they were past champs? If Ratten was good enough for Melbourne then he is certainly good enough for us. Elshaugh - garbage Libba - overpaid & ineffectual TD - 3rd club lucky with us - why was he let go previously? |
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| Author: | blueblood95 [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:05 pm ] |
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This is a great opportunity for the Club to release Pagan and inject new blood into the coaching staff. Mitchell might be appropriate, however dont you think we need to start a fresh? I hope that they weigh up all the options in the boardroom. (I wont hold my breath!0 
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| Author: | phoenix johnson [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:07 pm ] |
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Quote: Why should they not be considered because they were past champs?
Nothing to do with being a past champion, Kingkerna. It's got to do with being a Carlton person. As I have said before, we need to bring in people who have had nothing to do with the club before. Parkin was a perfect example. Played all his football at Hawthorn and is essentially a Hawthorn man, but began his coaching career at Carlton was relatively successful. If you think a coaching panel of Carlton greats will turn this club around, then you've got your head in the clouds. It won't happen. |
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| Author: | BluesRockMyWorld [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:12 pm ] |
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phoenix johnson wrote: It's a possibility, Liam.
But you would think if the players appear to want to play for Mitch, then he must be doing something that Pagan isn't. PJ What things make a player want to "play" for a coach? How are the players not wanting to "play" for Pagan? |
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| Author: | verbs [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:13 pm ] |
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It's not about what will and won't happen because nobody knows what will and won't happen, nor what will and won't work. We all want one thing, and how we want to get their is entirely up to us, individually. We all have our opinion of how we think it will work, or how we'd like it to work, and nobody is right or wrong. From our desks, we all have our heads in the clouds dreaming about how Carlton will win a premership. |
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| Author: | phoenix johnson [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:16 pm ] |
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BluesRockMyWorld wrote: phoenix johnson wrote: It's a possibility, Liam. But you would think if the players appear to want to play for Mitch, then he must be doing something that Pagan isn't. PJ What things make a player want to "play" for a coach? How are the players not wanting to "play" for Pagan? Respect both ways. And it's my understanding that the players do respond better to Mitch than Pagan. Anyone on here who is close to the club care to confirm that? |
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| Author: | TruBlueBrad [ Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:24 pm ] |
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phoenix johnson wrote: Quote: Why should they not be considered because they were past champs? Nothing to do with being a past champion, Kingkerna. It's got to do with being a Carlton person. As I have said before, we need to bring in people who have had nothing to do with the club before. Parkin was a perfect example. Played all his football at Hawthorn and is essentially a Hawthorn man, but began his coaching career at Carlton was relatively successful. If you think a coaching panel of Carlton greats will turn this club around, then you've got your head in the clouds. It won't happen. Is it anymore likely that a coaching panel from outside the club will turn it around? There is no reason why it can't work. None of the people we're talking about played for any lengthy period under Pagan so there'll be a change of philosophy regardless of whether they've been here before. Ideally I'd like to see a mix, a couple from outside the club and 1-2 ex players as assistant, but realistically the best we can get. If there are better candidate's from outisde the club then you go with them. |
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